Susannah POWELL & John LLOYD md. 1824 Shrewsbury

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StevenBlackwell
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Hello there,

I am a descendant of a John Lloyd (son of Humphrey Lloyd) and Susannah Powell who were married at St. Alkmund's Church, Shrewsbury on June 28th, 1824. As far as I can read into it (with the help of the IGI) Susannah was perhaps christened at Wellington on 16th August 1801 to parents Thomas Powell and Charlotte. Two other  children seem to have been born of this couple, namely Elizabeth (cr. feb 19, 1809, Tibberton) and Charlotte (cr. 19th March, 1815 at Tibberton) First of all I am trying to confirm this as the correct birth parents of Susannah who married John Lloyd.

Secondly I move onto Thomas Powell and Charlotte. Charlotte, from my understanding appears to be the Charlotte Price who married Thomas Powell on 30th June 1800 at Newport, Shropshire. I do not know the parentage of Thomas Powell but I am wondering if the parents of Charlotte are John Pryce and Mary. There is a Charlotte Pryce, christened at Newport, Shropshire on 17th April 1771. Her siblings appear to be Richard and Hanna Maria also christened at Newport. From my research John Pryce is a descendant of the Pryce family of Gunley, Montgomeryshire who married a Mary Bransby. This marriage took place at Newport on 28th March 1769. Various online sources discuss John's ancestry, but before I can link myself with this line I need some help in finding more proof. The dates and geographical proximity to places of birth and marriages seem to match but is there any further documentary references to them in the Parish Registers or other sources that might help?

I look forward to any assistance your Members can provide.

Martyn Freeth
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I suppose that the first question is whether you have checked out the original register entries for all those that you have seen in the IGI, which of course is no more than it says, an index, not giving any clue as to marital or social status or residence.

One's impression is of very unlikely jumping from one area to another; and the fact that others may have similarly jumped is not unusual, particularly if those who post are on another continent.

Note that baptisms at St Alkmund's are missing from IGI between (as David64 reported recently - i did not have earlier date to hand) from 1712 or so to 1812. As for the appropriate period are St Julian's and Holy Cross (the Abbey).

As regards the John Pryce who married Mary Bransby in 1769 he was not merely "a descendant" of Pryce of Gunley (Forden, Monts) but was the Revd John Pryce (1733-1808), Vicar of Welshpool and Fellow of Pembroke College, Oxford and then head of the family at Gunley. That estate in 1873 in Monts and Salop was around 1,200 acres.

Burke's Landed Gentry 1937 mentions that Revd John had four daughters including a Charlotte (no marriage mentioned); but if she did marry would it really have been to (a presumably - no aspersion cast) ordinary sort of man in Newport, Salop?

Have you tried for a proved Will of Revd John? Might be at Hereford (which covered Forden and Chirbury) or in PCC - noting that Welshpool was in St Asaph.

I think that I have tucked away a narrative account of Pryce of Gunley from Montgomeryshire Collections of 19th cent, but cannot break off just at the mo to look. May post further.

Martyn Freeth
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Will of Revd John Pryce, Clerk of Gunley was proved 19.8.1811 in PCC ref PROB11/1525.

Can be bought and instantly downloaded online for £3-50 via www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline (Regret that this is not full link - I have the idex as a "favourite" icon).

Martyn Freeth
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Unfortunately I do not have as hoped an extract on Pryce of Gunley, but details may be in “The History of Forden” in volume 17 of the Montgomeryshire Collections of the Powysland Club (set at Shropshire Archives) from which I have pages on other parish families.

 

The first edition (1836/8) of the Landed Gentry, then called Burke’s Commoners, in volume 2, page 655 sets out the four daughters of Revd John Pryce, of Gunley and his wife Mary (Bransby whom you found in IGI married in 1769 at Newport, Salop) as Anna Maria [ I see bap as Hannah Maria 1.3.1770 at Newport ] wife of Revd Richard Holmes, rector of Normanton; Charlotte; Harriotte; Martha, wife of H Hamer, of Liverpool.

 

It could be that an “inconvenient” marriage of Charlotte was ignored; but more likely in my view is that she died unmarried; and was possibly the Charlotte Pryce, somewhere in Montgomeryshire at 1851 Census, born [ about ] 1771. (This per the freely accessible part of Ancestry’s site: one cannot see without subscription other detail such as county or place of birth. There are others born 1787, 1812 and 1846).

 

Further, she may be she who died as Charlotte Pryce in December quarter 1854 in Montgomery District (ages not then given in GRO indices); and was the same as Charlotte Pryce, spinster of Montgomery [ town ] whose Will was proved in PCC 14.11.1854 (National Archives’ reference PROB11/2201). I searched the name for all England and Wales 1790-1860 – PCC jurisdiction ceased end 1857); while for the same period the names draw a blank for all Welsh dioceses at Nat Lib of Wales (www.llgc.org.uk). This of course excludes a search of Hereford diocese in which lay Forden and Chirbury).

 

StevenBlackwell
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 Hello Martyn,

Thank-you so much for all your helpful replies and guidance - your efforts on my behalf are much appreciated.

For the pedigree of Susannah Powell I shall have to visit Shropshire Archives too examine the Registers of St. Alkmund's for any further clues. The daughter born to this couple also married at this Church.

Best Wishes

Steven Blackwell

Martyn Freeth
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Fine, Steven; and best of luck. (I have yet to visit Shropshire Archives this year!). They hold most if not all of the (top grade) booklets of MIs produced by Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society, including Forden, where, I assume the Pryce family of Gunley are buried; and it is a fair bet that Charlotte (and her sister Harriotte, who also, I think, left a Will proved in 1827 in PCC, as of Ludlow, but not buried there) will be found, so as to nail down that issue.

Martyn Freeth
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Quick call in at Archives. Charlotte Pryce was living at Castle Bank, Montgomery at 1851 Census, a gentlewoman aged 80 and unmarried, born in Newport, Shropshire. So that's that!.

St Alkmund's maariages on fiche: 28.6.1824 John Lloyd bachelor of this parish and Susanna Lloyd spinster of this parish married by banns. No consent needed. Witnesses Richard Picking and Charles Astley (clearly a "regular") who signs. The other three by mark.

Regret cannot at present run to looking for Susaana's baptism. Have you found the couple in 1851 Census?

 

StevenBlackwell
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Hi Martyn.

 

Thank-you once again for your efforts on my behalf - much appreciated.

Have had a look for John/Susannah on the Census but cannot find them - one of those "brick walls" on my family tree. Think I have tried all the variations for Susannah/Susan/Susana etc.

John's parents were Humphrey Lloyd and Elizabeth Barkley and they were married at Ellesmere Parish Church, Shropshire on Aug 10th 1797. A bond of £500 was paid for this marriage apparently. A licence was obtained too. A few other people have posted "help" requests online for this couple but nobody can seem to find their parentage so another "brick wall" for them. The children of this couple were:-

Rebeckka 1803 Chr Dudleston, Chapel Parish of Ellesmere; Peter, 1804, Chapel Parish of Ellesmere; John 1806 Chapel Parish of Ellesmere; Edward 1809 Chapel Parish of Ellesmere;David 1811 Chapel Parish of Shrewsbury; Joseph 1813 Chapel Parish of Shrewsbury; Daniel 1815 Chapel Parish of Shrewsbury; Elizabeth 1817 Chapel Parish of Shrewsbury; Martha 1819 Chapel Parish of Shrewsbury.

This couple also seem absent from the 1841 Cenus.

 

 

Martyn Freeth
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Steven, now that you know that baptsms for at least roughly the latter half of the 18th century are missing from the IGI for three of the then five Shrewsbury parishes, and up to end 1813 for two of those three (inc St Alkmund's) you may feel it appropriate to rethink the whole theory to date on the Lloyd side.

Marriages at (at least) St Alkmund's may also be missing.

For one thing you would need to prove that the couple of Humphrey and Elizabeth earlier in Dudleston in the north-west of the county were the same as the couple later in St Julian's; and on the face of things this is unlikey: folk did not generally make such a geographical move. If those in Dudleston had some compulsion  to seek better fortunes they might move, if not to Ellesmere, Whitchurch or Oswestry then perhaps out of the county, such as to Wrexham or Chester, for example.

Unfortunately it is unlikely that Dudleston or St Julian's registers will quote detail, such as occupation or status, at baptisms before 1813.

Note also that the John, son of Humphrey and Elizabeth baptised in 1806 would, if he were truthful, have needed consent for marriage in 1824; and no such consent was recorded.

Given the large numbers of Johns Lloyd the date of death or burial, and age thereat. of your ancestor must surely be essential.

You might find the cd of the Shropshire Burials Index a good investment for the future - even if merely to prove a negative. You can check current coverage under the "Shop" icon.