Samuel HAYNES/HAINES b. 1792'ish Bitterley

9 replies [Last post]
NickHaynes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 1-03-2012

I am having difficulty in locating Samuel Haynes/Haines who I believe was born in the Bitterley area in around 1792. I have located him on the 1841/1851 and 1861 census but have failed to locate any parish records relating to him.

He married Anne WATKINS b. 1787 in Radnorshire on 24th February 1813 also in Bitterley.

I am hoping that someone may have already researched this individual and or the family and may be able to offer me some help.

Thanks Nick

Peter John
Offline
Last seen: 33 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: Saturday, 2-07-2011

Nick,

A tree owner (only identified by the letter K) in Genes Reunited has Samuel Haynes (1792/Bitterley) in her/his tree.

Peter 

Peter John
Offline
Last seen: 33 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: Saturday, 2-07-2011

Sorry - looked again: tree owner is a K Wray

NickHaynes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 1-03-2012

Thanks Peter, I have sent an email to K Wray via Genes Reunited on two occasions and have not had a reply. I can only assume K Wray has stopped using the site. Thank you for the message though it is always nice to see that someone is willing to help out if they can.

I am hoping one of the Shropshire fhs members is also researching Samuel Haynes/Haines and may be able to assist.

NickHaynes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 1-03-2012

It has been suggested to me on another site that Samuel Haynes b.1792'ish at Bitterley may have been the son of William Haynes b. 1765'ish and Ann Bromley b. 1766 both of Bitterley, Shrposhire. I cannot find any evidence to link the the two, but wondered if anyone out there may be able to add any additional information to confirm or not the suggested link.

Samuel Haynes has become a real block in reserching my family further back as I cannot find any Parish records from Shropshire of his birth at all, even though the Census returns for 1841, 1851 and 1861 suggest he was born in Bitterley Shropshire.

Any help or advice in finding a break through would be very welcome

Thanks Nick

Michael J Hulme
Offline
Last seen: 34 min 10 sec ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

Hello Nick

The early Bitterley parish registers have been printed and a transcript is freely available on Mel Lockie's excellent site where you can search for your ancestor.

If he doesn't turn up there then a trip to Hereford Record Office to look at the Bishop's Transcripts (BTs) should be your next step.  It is not unknown for entries to appear in the BTs when they are not in the original parish register.

Does the census show up any brothers or sisters? If so do check for their baptisms - at least that should confirm the names of his parents.

If the above possibilities fail to find him then you should search each of the parishes surrounding Bitterley just in case they used another church for some reason. You should also consider non-conformist chapels in the area.

At the end of the day you may have to accept that someone forgot to write your ancestor's details in the register at the time he was baptised so there never will be an entry to find.

Mike

NickHaynes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 1-03-2012

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your help. I didn't think about Bishops Transcripes.

I have started widening the search with neighbouring parishes, but nothing as yet. As you say the records may not exist and it may be end of the Haynes line with Samuel. I will keep looking as you never know what may turn up.

Thanks for the suggestions, they are much appreciated.

Nick

Martyn Freeth
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 47 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

A "parent" search of the IGI for Salop [ leave child's names blank, insert both names of the father and first name only of the mother on the right ] for 10 years either side of 1790 suggests William and Ann(e) moving between about four or five nearby parishes. Samuel just might have been overlooked in one move or another.

A very slight hope is that William might have been required at one parish or another to go through the then Poor Law settlement procedure, and that this left a surviving record among the parish documents of one of them. Such as survive are held at Shropshire Archives and are listed in blue index folders in the secure reading room (Reader's ticket needed - see one of my posts under William Kynaston).

Occasionally such a certificate is separately listed in SA's online catalogue (www.archives.shropshire.gov.uk) but you would need to search separately each likely variant of Hains / Haynes, etc, etc, etc.

Mr Chris Potter has a private index of all Salop Wills proved at Hereford. Small fee. cfrpotter@clara.co.uk. Note possible holiday period.

Apart from Michael's suggestion of going through Bitterley registers online, the same cannot be done for Long Stanton / Stanton Long (which was wholly missing from IGI before 1813 until recently); or Ditton Priors or Caynham. Visit to SA needed.

If you have time, you could try a forename-only search of all Samuels bap in Salop, year-by-year around 1792, just in case there was an entry but either wrongly entered in the register, or erroneously transcribed by the Genealogical Society of Utah. Hard work, but I have in the past struck lucky, at least with rarer forenames.

Finally, don't overlook neighbouring parts of Herefs and north-west Worcs, both largely missing from IGI.

NickHaynes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 1-03-2012

Hi Martyn,

Thank you for the additional information concerning William and Ann(e) Haynes.I haven't come across the Poor Law Settlement Procedure before, what is it about and what information would it contain. I live in South Wales so will consider attending the archives to take a look.

Anyfurther information would be greatly recieved.

Thanks

Nick

Martyn Freeth
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 47 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

Hello. briefly, up to 1836 if a family fell on hard times to the extent that they became a burden on the parish in which they were then living they could be sent back to the husband's parish of origin; unless they had become legally settled in the present parish.

Main thing for us is that there could be examinations by parish overseers as to the question of legal settlement; this producing some records - or records of "removal orders". These might note the then number of children.

Poor Law records can contain all sorts of genealogical goodies. Big topic. Try exploring online under poor law or look out for a textbook. Publications icon might have summ'at.