Searching for the family of John SKITT, former butler at Longnor Hall, whose will was proved 10 Feb 1835. The will names members of several families: LOXDALE, CHESHIRE, MORRIS among them. My 2nd great grandfather, George MORRIS, possessed John SKITT's bible which is the only clue we have to George MORRIS's family. George fought in the American Civil War and died in a farming accident. No other information about him is available to the family. Any help would be appreciated.
Hello, I have found the Will you refer to on Ancestry and agree it is extremely difficult to read. I have not succeeded yet. However as a bit of background for you, look at Longnor Hall, Shropshire (make sure you spell it Longnor - Longner is somewhere completely different) on Google. If you look at the Wikipedia page it has some background info on the Hall and the Corbets whose ancestors John Skitt must have worked for. As he died in 1835 there is no census to look on for him.
Hazel
Hi Hazel,
Thank you for taking the time to look at the will! You are so right about the lack of census data - also in parish records as the latest ones I've found from Shropshire date about 1812. I really appreciate your efforts!
Ruthann
I have been working with the names I found from JOHN SKITT’s will and am now looking at a MORRIS family from Preston Gubbals. I am hopeful that someone will recognize these names and let me know if I am on the right track. This line seems to me to be the most promising because JUDITH MORRIS, spinster, is listed as one of the legatees in the SKITT will and there are very few persons named JUDITH MORRIS that I have been able to trace in the Shropshire area. In the early 1700’s there is a MORRIS family listed in the Preston Gubbals parish register: Father: Thomas Morris, Mother: Judeth with 3 children baptized Richard, 1703, Martha, 1706 and John, 1708. By 1740 there is note of a family for John Morris and wife Anne LNU with several children including a son Robert baptized 1750 and daughter Judith baptized 1749.
ROBERT MORRIS baptized in Preston Gubbals on 12 Nov 1750 married ELIZABETH LNU – no marriage date has been confirmed.
I have found a Robert Morris married to Elizabeth Tudor in 1777 in High Ercall that might fit the dates needed but I haven’t found any other records.
Children born to Robert and Elizabeth who are baptized in Preston Gubbals:
THOMAS baptised 1780; ELIZABETH bap. 1781; JUDITH bap. 1782; HANNAH bap. 1784; THOMAS bap. 1785; JOHN bap. 1786; another Thomas bap 1795, then WILLIAM bap. 1797 and twins JOSEPH and SARAH bap. 1798
There is also a JANE Morris, father Robert with mother not named, baptised in High Ercall in 1779 who might be a member of this family.
Legatees from the Skitt will include these Morris names with the female names following the male Morris and before the Grice male names:
THOMAS, WILLIAM, JOSEPH, JOHN, SAMUEL, JANE, HANNAH, ELIZABETH and JUDITH.
I am tracing my Skitt Family do you have the Bible that belonged to John Skitt? I have Edward John Skitt married Matilda Morris 1858 they had two children George Morris Skitt and Catherine, Matilda was the dau of Thomas Morris b 1796 and Catherine b 1801 Matilda died age 21 she is buried in Middle or Preston Gubbles,Edward John was the son of George Skitt 1810 George was the son of John Skitt 1772. do these people fit into your search?
Hi Ruth,
Thank you for your information! I haven't looked at the more recent SKITT families because none of them were mentioned as legatees in the will. Assuming that the ~John SKITT I've been tracing is the original owner of the Bible (I don't have the Bible - just pictures of the flyleaf) he was born in Shawbury to William SKITT and Elinor JONES. There were 2 other sons listed in parish records for John and Elinor - PARRAN 1765-1782 and William 1768-1771. The only surviving son, John SKITT, is the one I think signed the Bible and he seems to have been childless - based on his will. You can view the will on Ancestry.com. John was buried in Leebotwood in 1835. He listed among his kinsmen many LOXDALES - I think Hannah SKITT LOXDALE was his aunt. Additionally he names Richard CHESHIRE and Richard MADELEY as kinsmen and godsons. I have found some people with these family names in Ercall Magna as well as Preston Gubbals but nothing to definitively tie them all together. There are also kinsmen named GRICE in addition to the MORRIS's that I'm trying to trace. Please let me know if any of these names sound familiar to you. If I can make the connection to your names I will be happy to pass on whatever information I find. The George MORRIS SKITT name is the most hopeful information I have seen!! Thank you again, Ruthann
Hi Ruth,
I haven't been able to make a connection to the SKITT Family yet but will keep trying. Most interesting for my search is your MORRIS family information. I have a Matilda MORRIS born 1842 to Catherine OARE and Thomas MORRIS. Catherine's mother (also Catherine) was married first to William OARE and then to Henry KENT who was born in Fitz. There might be a connection between this KENT Family and the KENT Family that Thomas' sister Jane married into. Jane born 1778 baptised in High Ercall to Robert MORRIS and Elizabeth TUDOR married Henry KENT in 1799-I think Henry's parents are John KENT and Mary COLFAX and originally from Wem but living in Preston Gubbals at the time of Henry's baptism - assuming I have tied Henry to the correct family. Do any of these names look familiar to you?
The John SKITT I am researching is the son of William SKITT and Elinor JONES of Great Wytheford - William is the son of Parran SKITT . I don't see any link between the Skitt family from the Shawbury area and Preston Gubbals but I will keep looking and let you know if I find anything.
Do you know if there is a DNA data base for Shropshire?
Hello Ruthann
I will try to deal with and answer some of the points you have raised in the above posts.
Post #1 (the number is in the top right of the post)
Wills were usually drawn up by a legal person (Solicitor) so that they were set out correctly but having said that an individual, if they could write, could write a very basic will, "I leave everything to my wife" and sign it in the presence of witnesses who also signed it. That still applies today in the UK. Until 1858 wills were 'proved' and probate granted by ecclesiastical courts at various levels like the Diocese and at the top of the tree was the Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, often referred to as the PCC for short. It is one of these PCC wills you have found on Ancestry so someone must have gone to the expense of travelling to London to prove the will.
In 1858 probate became a Civil function dealt with by a system of Probate Courts around the country. We had one in Shrewsbury until it closed in 1940. The indexes to probate for the whole of England and Wales (but not Scotland) can be found on Ancestry from 1858 to 1966 and these give a lot of useful information when you look at the image rather than the transcript. In addition, the indexes can now be searched right up to the present time (by SURNAME only) on the new Gov.UK web site.
Q/- Is it a reasonable assumption that the beneficiaries lived in the same parish as John Skitt at the time the will was drawn?
R/- No. He could have left something to someone in the USA and vice versa.
Q/- ... would appreciate finding out if such a personal possession as a bible was likely to have been passed to someone outside the family
R/- It could have gone to anyone. One of my family bibles was passed to a daughter in law and then through her family so they can easily get lost.
Q/- Are there assumptions that can be made as to the order the names appear - degree of kinship or social standing?
R/- Possibly but it was at the whim of the person writing it.
Q/- ...left bequests of 100 GBP each to his employer and two of his sons...
R/- That was a lot of money. Normally you leave money to those who are relatives or potentially less well off but that certainly wouldn't apply to his employer. I am guessing this is quite unusual.
Post #4
ROBERT MORRIS baptized in Preston Gubbals on 12 Nov 1750 married ELIZABETH LNU – no marriage date has been confirmed.
If you don't have a date and/or place of marriage what makes you think they were married?
I don't understand Elizabeth's surname LNU - as far as I am aware that is not a surname in the UK.
Post #7
Jane born 1778 baptised in High Ercall to Robert MORRIS and Elizabeth TUDOR
Why did you select this baptism for Jane when there are several others at about the same time, at least one of which I think could be more likely?
Mike
Hello Ruth
With reference to the death/burial of Matilda SKITT (nee MORRIS) I can confirm that she was buried at Preston Gubbals. When the gravestones in the churchyard were transcribed in 1980 one of them had the following information:-
"Matilda SKITT youngest daughter of Thomas & Caroline MORRIS late of Parrill & Acton Burnell died 13 Apr 1869 aged 29
Also Robert MORRIS son of above died 24 Jun 1873 aged 51"
Two points to note about this. First, I can't find any information about a place called 'Parrill' so I wonder if this has been misread. Could it be referring to Perrill (or Pearhill) near Albrighton, Shrewsbury. Secondly, the age of Matilda was read as 29 but the burial register gives it as 27 and also says she was from Bomere Heath. You have her age as 21 which seems unlikely when she has had at least two children.
The gravestone at Preston Gubbals was upright in 1980 but that is no longer the case. I think it is lying on the ground under a layer of moss but I don't know which way up it is. If you want to visit the grave get in touch with me and I will tell you where it is. If we get a hot dry spell in the summer the stone may become easier to see.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to so many of my questions - I appreciate the insight. I have been trying to link John Skitt to my great great grandfather because the only clue we have to his family is the bible signed first by John Skitt and then by George Morris.
John Skitt's will lists several Morrises and from Find My Past I was able to find marriage licenses that matched the names listed. Jane Morris from High Ercall is a bigger guess than most but was chosen because of her age at the time the marriage license was listed and High Ercall seemed a more reasonable geographical pick than some towns since other legatees listed were said to come from that location. Jane may not be a sibling but instead a cousin of the other Morrises and I would certainly appreciate a push in another direction if you would care to share your thoughts.
The LNU designation is just Last Name Unknown - to hold a space while I'm trying to gather information. It is sloppy and I shouldn't have used it here but did so without thinking it would mislead people.
Thank you again for your time and information,
Ruthann
Hello Ruthann
I think it might be helpful to your research if we got back to basics and establish exactly what facts you have for your direct ancestors. Presumably you have details for your immediate ancestors from family information and documents within the US but who was the person or family who emigrated from the UK to the US? What specific information do you have about them to establish their date and place of emigration and where they came from and what ties them to Shropshire?
Mike
Hi Mike,
My 2x great grandfather, George Morris, came to the US -no records have been found that indicate a time frame - and fought in the US Civil War. After the war he came to southern Illinois and married, fathered a child named William Henry born Jan 1868 and was killed in a farming accident - no date or grave location is known. I have made the assumption that George came to Franklin County, Illinois because he served with the brother of his future wife,an infantry division, or perhaps with her father who was in the cavalry. There is a George Morris from Lancashire, England who served in the same infantry unit but I haven't been able to connect any of the George Morrises born in Lancashire from the census data with the anyone who might be my ancestor.
The only clue we have to George's identity is the bible he carried with John Skitt's name on the flyleaf followed by George Morris's name. The family has always assumed that John Skitt was a close family member - perhaps a maternal grandfather but once I found the Skitt will at the UK Archives, that assumption was put aside as I am sure that if he had a daughter he would have made provision for her and any children she might have. George's widow remarried in Mar of 1870, started a new family and the story in the family is that George came from somewhere near Wales. If my 2great grandmother had more information I'd like to think that she'd have passed it on. Using the names of legatees in the will I have tried to piece together some family ties to John Skitt - which is how I ended up in my current muddle.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Ruthann
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Follow up questions!
I'm in the US and have little access to UK sources and documents so in addition to needing information about the family connection, I would really appreciate any information that could be provided about wills and legal documents drawn in the 1830's.
I found John Skitt's will in the National Archives and purchased a copy. The handwriting is very difficult to read and the legal terminology also presents difficulties. With very few exceptions the beneficiaries had no location included or family connection established other than the fact of their being kinsmen. MORRIS is a very common name in Shropshire. Is it a reasonable assumption that the beneficiaries lived in the same parish as John Skitt at the time the will was drawn? I have made the assumption that John SKITT was related to George MORRIS because George had possession of John's bible. Until I found the will I had assumed that John Skitt was George's grandfather but there John listed no children among his family. I would really like to avoid another unwarranted assumption - so would appreciate finding out if such a personal possession as a bible was likely to have been passed to someone outside the family.
John SKITT was related in some way to HANNAH SKITT LOXDALE whose husband THOMAS LOXDALE served as Mayor of Shrewsbury in 1774. Three of Hannah and Thomas's children and eleven of their grandchildren are listed as beneficiaries. There are about 35 people listed to share in the division of the estate after individual bequests were made. Are there assumptions that can be made as to the order the names appear - degree of kinship or social standing? THOMAS MORRIS has a personal bequest in addition to his listing in the general share but his name appears after all the Loxdales and several MADELEYs. This might seem to be alphabetical but there are several names that follow including FARMER and GRICE.
John SKITT also left bequests of 100 GBP each to his employer and two of his sons, Uvedale and PANTON. Nothing is mentioned about repayment of debts or monies to be paid to executors here - only that these were bequests. Was this something most butlers did for the families they worked for? I would love some insight into these practices if someone can help!