For many months now I have been searching for the marriage of my 3 x Great Grandfather John Jones [born 1798] to Ellen ? born at St Martins, Shropshire.
The 1851 census shows John living with his family and working in Mold as a master saddler. He is shown as having been born in Mold and his baptism is confirmed there. However, more interestingly, I have been quite unable to trace his marriage anywhere in Flintshire or at St Martin.
A study of the family in the 1841 census shows that the family were resident in Mold and that their eldest son, my 2 X Great Grandfather James, was aged 20, probably suggesting that his parents were married around 1820. James was born in Mold as were all of his siblings but not having found his parent's marriage in Flintshire, I concluded that John and Ellen must have been married in Ellen's home parish of St Martin. But no marriage has been found in St Martin either!
I wonder if somebody would be so good as to see whether they can find the marriage anywhere in Shropshire please?
David Stick
Hello David. Long time!
To follow up Michael's suggestions: bear in mind that coverage of marriages in Salop after 1812 is mixed and thin. There is the still incipient SFHS Marriage Index (see Shop icon; regret I do not hold it yet).
If it was in Wales you might try the indices of marriage licencs at NLW. Don't really need to tell you, but for benefit of others www.llgc.org.uk
Also there is the Hayes, now North Wales Marriage Index, address on the web. (Have not used it for some years.
And, by the way, have you stumbled yet across that of our ancestors William PETERS and Anne HARTLEY, or William's bap?
Regards, Martyn.
Thank you for your response Mike with your interesting idea re Manchester. You may be on to something with that suggestion.
My 2 X Great Grandfather James Jones, son of John whose marrige I seek, is shown in the 1841 census to have been a smith and in 1843, married in Wrexham. At which time he was employed as a mechanic. By 1851 he was living in Manchester employed as an engine fitter [locomotive] where he and his wife lived for the rest of their lives.
Whilst he obviously moved to Manchester for employment, he may well have had some other as yet unkown connection with that city. I will explore that avenue.
However, you mention Banns as a source for data to establish where the marriage might have taken place. I imagine you are suggesting the home parish banns of St Martin and Mold. Here I have been unable to find a source for Banns in either Shropshire or Flintshire!
Do you have any advice here please?
Well, what an unexpected pleasure, Martyn!
To answer your question first, no, I haven't been able to find any more about our ancestor William Peters and in particular his baptism. A friend who lives and does a great deal of her genealogical research in Anglesey has made extensive local searches but can find nothing to connect William to the Peters families on that island. Neither have I been able to find any connection with Peters amongst the Aberdovey or west coast shipping families. I'm wondering whether he might have any connection with the Peters families here in the West Country perhaps through a shipping/trading interest!
My current 'brick wall' is just as difficult it would seem. As there is a connection to you as well through marriage it may be of some interest to you. The connection is through my Grandfather Ernest Jones and his wife my Grandmother Edith Jane Jones [1881-1943] of the Rockley Farm [Shropshire] Jones family just outside Montgomery. Of course, we have extensive knowledge of the latter and her ancestors.
I 'raced' through the records back to the 1841 census as related earlier, only to come up against the problem of finding the marriage of John Jones to his wife Ellen. What I know from the 1851 census is that Ellen came from St Martin, Shropshire and I know that John was a master saddler in Mold as recorded in both 1851 and 1841 census. I believe I may also have found John's baptism in Mold in 1798. Though there are two entries in that year and I have yet to establish which is the correct one.
I have had a search of the NW Marriage Index but based on the probable marriage date being between 1818 and 1822, none were found in Flintshire that fitted. A search of the St Martin register for the same period also came up empty!
So, where to go next might be answered by examination of banns books for both Mold and St Martin. But I can find no refernce to their availability though I suspect the Mold banns might be available at NLW though I can't find reference to them on the website. Presumably, the St Martin banns will be with Salop Record Office though again they don't seem to include the 1818-1822 period!
Do you have any other thoughts?
Many thanks David.
As a bit more on Peters, did I ever mention a Will of Abraham Pettonson of Tywyn [ = Aberdovey ] of 1646? Am sure that he was ancestor of the Peters of Aberdovey and Anglesey. And given that Pettonson was probably earlier Peterson or similar it might bear out that local tradition of German origin.
As regards you immediate quest, I might comment that St Martins always had an affinity to next-door Chirk; while Wrexham would have been a magnet for work of any sort. Thus, perhaps the search might be widened into Denbs, not merely Flints.
Will post further if any further thought.
Hello David
Banns for St Martin's survive for 1754-1784 and 1824-1976. There is unfortunately a gap betwen 1784 and 1824, which of course includes the period in which you want them.
Wrexham Banns survive from 1826 to 1968 which again is too late for you. I can't see any Banns listed for Chirk which is not helpful. Mold Banns survive 1843-74, 1935-51 and 1964-73 which again is no help.
Mike
Thanks Mike. It would look as if I'm stuffed then! Short of what in the RAF we used to refer to as a 'maritime square search' of all marriage registers in likely parishes I don't see any hopes.
As John was a master saddler I had hoped that he would have made a will that just might have helped. I went to NLW online search but could find nothing. Whilst on the site I also checked all of the Bonds and found nothing there either. Can you think of any other posibilities resulting from his employment?
What a pity that BTs didn't include the requirement for Banns to be recorded!
I took a look at the Manchester Cathedral records as you suggested but there was nothing there. So, I've run out of ideas on how I can find Ellen's surname and hence who her parents were.
My kinsman Martyn Freeth has suggested that I include Denbeigh in my search and I shall certainly try this.
David
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hello David
If you look at the Family Search web site an assortment of people with the names you mention show up around that time but working out which, if any, is yours will be far from easy.
Looking 'outside the box' you might like to pay some attention to the marriages which took place at Manchester Cathedral. This might seem a strange idea but it is well known that a wide variety of people from several miles around Manchester went there to marry for reasons perhaps best known to themselves.
I have never looked at any of these marriages so I don't know how much detail the registers contain. You will have to hope they state the parishes of the bride and groom if you are to have any hope of deciding if your couple married there.
Don't forget to consider using Banns Books because you only have to find the entry in the parish of the bride or the groom and it should tell you where the marriage was intended to take place.
Mike