Jane from Worthen

I appreciate that you have already said that you are new to the parish register rather than civil registration regimes. But members of the Forum simply will not have at home any copy registers for your required area and parish. So this would mean searches in the fiches at Shropshire Archives; and this Forum does not bring with it free look-ups just like that. Archives are daily dealing with such requests from all over the UK and abroad, and they charge a minimum of £5-00 per query or £25-00 per hour for anything lengthy.

Those of us who visit have our own shopping lists and time is precious. (Admittedly I do pursue some topics raised here which are of particular interest or challenge).

But surely here you would be buying a birth certificate for the post-1870 ancestor which would give mother's maiden name?

You could try for entries in FreeBMD in Wem Reg District for that William born in Loppington, using an appropriate span of years. And if applying to the local Registrar you can still (I believe)  ask that the request should only proceed if the parents are Edward and Jane.

And you might try in FreeBMD for permutations of marriage between Edward Jones and one of those Janes whom you have listed. Whole of Shropshire AND Forden (earlier known as Montgomery) District (Montgomeryshire) to pick up home parish of Worthen (albeit in Salop).

"But surely here you would be buying a birth certificate for the post-1870 ancestor which would give mother's maiden name? "

Yes - I ordered what I think is the correct certificate last week - I'm just waiting for it to arrive. 

Sorry for causing any offence.

Mike

No offence taken; just that clarification was perhaps needed. And, thinking further, finding any of those maiden name baptisms would in itself give no clue as to later marriage. I see that there are only two candidates in Wem Reg District for William Jones, aged 7 at 1881 C and that one was William Alexander.

You may well need a search for a baptism to identify the father Edward, born in Oswestry once you have his marriage cert, and thus his own father's forename and occupation. Many parishes in Oswestry Reg District and Oswestry itself a very extensive parish until subdivision.

I made one or two unsuccessful serches today for the marriage of EJ and Jane; and fear things must wait until you have William's birth certificate. It would be nice for you to have also his baptism; but that register for Loppington, post 1859, has not been deposited. Still in use!

Many thanks Martyn

I received the birth certificate yesterday but it was the wrong one! Quite a different William altogether.

I'm now going to review exactly what I do have, just to make sure that this William is, in fact the wrong one, or to see whether my Edward and Jane route was the wrong one all the time. I don't think this is the case, but it's time to take stock.

The BC I have just received is for a William Jones, born in Clive 9th March, 1874, Parents are William Jones, Stonemason and Elizabeth Jones, formerly Wellings.   The year of birth is right, as the general area (my William always put Burlton as his place of birth), but that's about it. The marriage certificate I have for him gives his full name as William Edward, and his father's name as Edward, Labourer.

I also ordered a BC for what might have been his sister, Jane but that turned out to be very wrong as well! That's the problem with being called Jones!

I need to look for another likely William Jones birth record now. That one did jump out at me though, so I'll have another search.

Thanks again for your time, it's much appreciated.

Mike

Your comment about the Loppington register still being in use set me thinking, and I have found  someone there who may be able to help.  http://www.stmichaelsloppington.co.uk/family-history.html 

David Edge (an old friend of my sister) may indeed just happen to know something. Meanwhile Michael Hulme is also on the case, from a call just now.

I see no reason to ditch Edward and Jane as the parents just yet.

Keep looking in here for a while in case we turn something up.

I had a very quick and helpful reply from David Edge who turned up the following baptism records:

Nice stuff. But I don't readily see William registered as Edward W(illiam), unless we are horribly wrong on the registration district.

I tried unsuccessfully a few more parishes today, for a sensible span, for marrage of EJ and J - Ellesmere, Cockshutt and Ruyton-XI-Towns. I chose this latter having seen that at 1871 Census EJ at Burlton gave R-XI-T as place of birth. It is of course possible that marriage followed birth of first known child.

Now if R-XI-T was right, and birth there was not fortuitous, and parents were conforming C of E, one of the following baptisms noted there today may be relevant:

16.4.1841: Edward s of Edward and Anne Jones, Ruyton, labourer;

10.3.1848: Edward s of Edward and Mary Jones, Wigmarsh, blacksmith.

Neither fit EJ's married, census ages; but might I suggest investigating them, such as looking at their later fates in Censuses. (Am not subscribed at home). The latter may be with Henry Asterley at Shrawardine as 14-year-old assistant cowman in 1861 - seen at Archives.

Great - I'll follow up on those people tomorrow (just back from work now.)

Many thanks

Mike

I've just noticed on David Edge's transcript of William's baptism that he was baptised Edward William, not William Edward, although he used the latter version of his name on later documents such as his marriage certificate.

There is a birth register for an Edward Jones, fourth quarter in Wem district. I'm guessing that it wouldn't have been unusual for the baptism name and the registration name not to match up exactly?

Mike

Well, Michael, seeing as how you seem to have run out of Williams in Wem District 1873/4, and Edward W seems to draw a blank, it might be worth a try. I believe (no recent experience) that you can apply to the local Superintendant Registrar and stipulate that you dunna want it if parents are not Edward and Jane.

Ring the Wem office on 01939 238418, say 10am / 4pm (Edinburgh House, New Street, Wem) but they may pass you on to the Shire Hall, Shrewsbury.

Thank you, Martyn. I'll do exactly that.

Mike