Looking for info re Elizabeth Hamblet/Hamblett/Hemblat/Hamlet born Shropshire 1825-1831. She married Anthony MEARS 1860 Sunderland Durham (on there it's Hamlet). She died 1864 Houghton Le springs Durham (death cert. says b Wem).
1851 census she's listed as visitor at Anthony's Norfolk home, she was listed as born Padder Green Shropshire (name 1851 census Hamblett)
Many variances re maiden name spelling.
Anthony was my G G Grandad - I am in Oz.
Any info gratefully appreciated on her/ her family before marriage - is a mystery! - thanks
Thanks so much for you reply - I'd wondered about the "Padders Green" couldn't find it - so wondered if it had been written wrongly - will look into your other suggestions. Hopefully may answer our questions re Elizabeth - Maree
Thanks, waiting on her marriage certificate, to see if that hopefully gives her mothers name (if there wasnt a father). When you refer to "the indexes", does that mean the records of Wem Union workhouse? if it's not what you mean, are there any records available online for the Workhouse? - thanks in anticipation
Know now Elizabeth's dad Thomas Hamlet(on wed cert). labourer. she's listed as 30yrs in 1860. Is it unusual for just mums name on christening record? eg the Catherine mentioned in prev comments?- have found a Thomas Hamlett & catharine (nee Pitts) , kids Mary 1822, Thomas 1824, Jesse Hamlett 1826 with both parents named - then there's Elizabeth, just mum's name Catherine & a Sarah Hamlet/Hamlett 1834 with just catherine's name - could they be from all the one family? -Is there a record online freely available where I could find my info re the Elizabeth in the Union Workhouse in 1841? - have checked out the names on the list there then cant see any other by same surname - thanks for any assistance -
I wouldn't necessarily rely on the marriage certificate as a reliable source for the father's name. A child born out of wedlock may have been given false information by his or her mother regarding the identity of their father and that information would then be given in good faith when the child grew up and married. Or, if the child knew the truth and they did not know who their father was, they might invent a name and occupation to hide the fact that they were born out of wedlock.
In this particular case, it is interesting to note that the Shropshire Burials Index shows a Thomas Hamlet, abode Paddock Green, age 36, buried at Whixall St Mary on 27 May 1827. (The Burials Index is a valuable reference for anyone researching Shropshire roots and well worth the modest price charged for it.)
Whixall is a little to the north of Edstaston and Paddolgreen / Paddock Green, this map should show all three. Thomas could well have been the husband of Catherine and the father of her earlier children. Following his death, it is possible that Catherine had additional children but did not marry the father (or fathers) of those children, they would then take their mother's surname from her marriage to Thomas. I have seen other examples of this.
Steve
Thanks for you reply, I agree this could well be the case - sounds feasible. Have messaged someone on Mundia.com who has the 3 kids of Catherine & Thomas listed, asking if they knew of an Elizabeth born abt 1829 to Catherine. after Thomas's death - no reply as yet.
Have several questions - will ask each seperately - Is there a way to "prove" that "my" Elizabeth is the one christened 1829 in Edstaston? - would any Church records be availabe/prove anything in regard to her - I know sometimes we ask the impossible ..... here's hoping - thanks again
I have a great x6 grandmother in my tree born Sarah Hamlet or Hamblett b 1713 in Prees which is in same vicinity, but I know nothing of any other Hamlets. She married a Daniel Holding.
Thanks for your reply re your Sarah Hamlet/Hamlett - trying to get my thoughts "re-grouped" re "my" Elizabeth, regards from Oz
Hi Smartho
This may help you with re-grouping your thoughts regarding Elizabeth Hamlet. I was at Shropshire Archives today and took time out from my own extensive list of MI and parish record look-ups to have a look for the baptism records for all five Hamlet children at Edstaston. Here are the details (format is date | child's name | parent(s)' name(s) | family name | abode | occupation of father - or status of mother):
1822. May 5 | Mary Daughter of | Thomas & Catharine | Hamlet | Paddock Green | Tailor
1824. Feby 22nd | Thomas Son of | Thomas & Catharine | Hamlet | Paddock Green | Tailor
1826. April 30th | Jesse Son of | Thomas & Catharine | Hamlet | Paddock Green | Tailor
1829. Octr 4 | Elizabeth illegitimate Dr of | Catherine | Hamlet | Paddock Green | Widow of Thomas Hamlet Tailor
1834. Jany 26 | Sarah illegitimate Dr of | Catharine | Hamlet | Paddock Green | Widow
I wasn't sure what to expect when I looked for the records, but the baptism for Elizabeth couldn't be clearer. I think we can now be as certain as it's possible to be that Elizabeth's mother was Catharine, widow of Thomas Hamlet. Unless there are surviving Bastardy Examination records, the identity of the father may well remain a mystery.
Steve
Steve, thanks so much, reading this makes me smile! Yes, agree this is Elizabeth's Mum - that's what's important. wouldn't look for any records for her possible father. 3 questions 1. Couldn't see Catherine & Sarah's names on Workhouse 1841 census - would it be unusual for just an 11yr old Elizabeth's name - would other family members gone to same workhouse?
2.Is there ready access to more "personlized" records from the Workhouses - have looked at the site but can't see anything specific
3. Have found deaths for Catherine Hamlet Dec 1874 Wellington Shropshire, Catherine Hamlett Dec 1844 Shrewsbury, and a Catherine Hamlet in an asylum 1881 widower Wellington . aged 76- with Elizabeth dying aged 34 tending to think maybe her Mum died young too- could be the 1 died 1844 - whats best way to ascertain which Catherine is Elizabeth's Mum?
Can't wait to share the news with my cousins!
Steve, I'm in Newcastle NSW, Oz, - if at any time I can be of assistance to you for info here - please let me know - I really appreciate what you've done - again big thanks! - & look forward to hopefully answers to my newer questions - Maree
Hi Maree
I'm glad I made you smile - happy to have been of some help. NSW, hmmmm. Stephen Atcherley from Shropshire, who emigrated to Oz and set up (with Thomas Dawson) Atcherley & Dawson, tea merchants, died at Dubbo in NSW on 9 Jul 1894 (see my article). There was an Atcherley Hotel in Brisbane, QLD (now an Atcherley Room in the Marriott Hotel that replaced it) which I've always assumed was named after Stephen, but I've never been able to find anything confirming that.
I've not done much workhouse research so can't really advise on your questions relating to admissions to the one at Wem. Survival of documents relating to them is probably a bit hit and miss. If there are any for Wem held in Shropshire Archives I would expect to find details by searching Discovering Shropshire's History. There are some Records of Wem Poor Law Union but whether they will extend to details of admissions I'm not sure. Staff at the Archives would be best placed to advise.
Without knowing the exact circumstances of Elizabeth's admission it is difficult to know what might have happened to the rest of her family. It may be worth trying to trace her siblings on the census records to see what can be found of them. Jesse survived to marry (Susannah) and have children, likewise Thomas (wife Sarah), but searches do not immediately reveal them before 1861 so a little more creativity is perhaps needed to track them down in 1841 and 1851, when it would be interesting to know where they were and who they were with. Actually, I've now found Jesse in 1841, a 14 year old male servant living with the family of James Piggott, farmer, at Bostock Hall in Prees. There's also a Sarah Hamlet, apparently 9 years old, who shows up as a female servant in the household of farmer William Thomas at Tilley in the parish of Wem, who may or may not be Sarah baptised 1834.
As for which death record might relate to Elizabeth's mother Catherine, I would look at the ages at death for the two later records, calculate approximate years of birth for the two Catherines in question, and then search for them in the census records to see if they appear to match up (sometimes it's easier to disprove than to prove something, and then whatever remains, however improbable ... well, it worked for Sherlock!). Bear in mind also the possibility that Catharine might have remarried and gone to the grave with a different surname, or indeed may have died before the 1841 census which might explain the dispersal of her (orphaned?) children (via the workhouse, with the exception of Elizabeth?) by that year.
Steve
Thanks again Steve, for the latest info. Have tried contacting the person who has that Jesse Hamlet on mundia site but no answer. A Cousin who subscribes to ancestry has tried as well - hoping some answer arrives. I'd thought the process of elimination also, regarding the Catherines, and will contact the archives re that matter, and look again at thomas jnr. Honestly my cousins & I are so pleased with this so far, more than we'd hoped for. Elizabeth would be proud of her legacy of her descendants, I know how special they are, I was luckily adopted into the family as a baby.
Wow, have looked very briefly at your Stephen Atcherley - couldn't get to it by link you'd put but accessed it thru' your site -congrats on it - brilliant! Looked at Trove, gee there's lots of mentions of him & Dawson. He'd surely thought out his Will, read the "testators gifts". You'd think there was a connection with the Marriott's "Attcherly" room etc, considering the mentions on trove of the Atcherley Hotel, in the 1930's I think it was - will keep eyes & ears open re it. - cheers from Oz - Maree
Steve, did you take note of Thomas jnr's wife's maiden name? & children's names? - Have had an answer from the person I messaged re their tree online which has a Thomas Hamlet b 1826 Wem marrying a Sarah (nee taylor) - children Jane b 1861, Thomas b 1866, George 1871, Henry 1871 - this Sarah was an ancestor of person who has tree & they don't have other info on Thomas.. They'd gotten the date b 1826 from census and they dont think that "their" Thomas is "our" Thomas. (hope that makes sense).I've looked and the only other Thomas Hamlet I can find marrying, would be 1866( to a Sarah Cartwright).I'm assuming the Thomas (jnr)you found & wife & kids was "our" Thomas?
There's been no answer from the message I sent the person who has a larger tree online which includes Thomas jnr & sister Mary, b 1822, and Jesse 1826 this one is extensive as it follows thru' to Jesse's children etc. Still hoping for contact from them. Thanks for any help - regards, Maree
The Archives did a search for Elizabeth Hamlet in the Wem Union Guardians Minute book - 1839-1844 couple of references 1840,1841 referring to Elizabeth and Sarah Hamlet being "placed out and apprenticed". The Archives did add a note saying there was no other records, and couldnt say if they were indeed apprenticed. At least, it paints a little more of a picture the earlier life of "our" Elizabeth. Still no answer to message sent to decendants of Jesse Hamlet (but still hopeful), one small step at a time ....... maree
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Hello
With reference to the birth place given in the 1851 census, we don't have a place called Padder Green in Shropshire but we do have a Paddol Green (or Paddolgreen on modern maps) which is 1 mile (1.6 km) west of Edstaston and 2 miles (3.2 km) NNW of Wem. It is in the parish of Edstaston so that is where you should expect to find the baptism of Elizabeth.
The FamilySearch web site (previously the IGI) lists a christening for Elizabeth HAMLETT at Edstaston on 4th Oct 1829. Her parents are listed as just Catharine HAMLETT so this would suggest that the child was illegitimate.
The FamilySearch web site also produces a possible (probable?) entry for Elizabeth in the 1841 census at Wem, Shropshire HO.107/902 Book 12 Folio 51 page 1 which is the Wem Union Workhouse. You can view this on Ancestry or Find my Past. (both fee paying unless you have a subscription or can use them at your local library/archive office) Her mother is not listed with her and I can't see her in the indexes.
Mike