BIRTHS

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cooper0179
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Last seen: 2 years 21 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 29-10-2020

Would it be possible for births to be shown on Parish Registers, but not on the Civil BDM post 1837. I have a Martha Cooper in my tree, Born Wombrdige 1837, she moves to Bilston Staffs between 1841 and 1851. She marries 1854 to George Gilbert at St Lukes Methodist Church, and this shows up on both Parish and Civil BDM. The Church Baptism records show 2 x children to this couple, (Emma 1855 and Isaiah 1857) however, I cannot find details of these births on any Civil BDM site. They are also proving difficult to find on any Census records post 1851.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave C

Aylesbury, Bucks

Michael J Hulme
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Last seen: 3 hours 36 min ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

Hello Dave

Whilst Civil Registration started on 1st July 1837 there were those who were reluctant to get involved in the new system and just stuck to having their children baptised.  In the case of your Martha COOPER her birth was registered Q3 1837 in the Wellington Registration District but checking the General Register Office (GRO) web site it seems that her mother's maiden name is unclear in the original record and is listed as ...DAY.

Whilst I can't see a Birth registration for Isaiah GILBERT in 1857 the following entry appears in the GRO Indexes so may be there was some uncertainty about his actual forename.

GILBERT, ISAAC         COOPER     
GRO Reference: 1857  S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 447

Again, looking in the GRO Birth Indexes for Emma GILBERT in 1855 does not bring up anyone of that name but it does bring up the following two entries which seem to refer to the same child.

GILBERT, PRISCILLA         COOPER     
GRO Reference: 1855  S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 374
GILBERT, PRISCILLA         COOPER     
GRO Reference: 1855  S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 374  Occasional Copy: A

I don't know the significance of the words 'Occasional Copy: A'.

The method of finding these entries is to put the father's surname in the surname at birth field and the mother's maiden surname in the appropriate box and then just enter the year with +/- 2 and the sex of the child then press 'Search'.

I have not been able to find the family in the 1861 census.

Mike

cooper0179
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Last seen: 2 years 21 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 29-10-2020

Many Thanks Mike.

I have looked at the entry for Priscilla before, (scrathed my head over it) and then dismissed it.

I will go back again and see if I can find if she does indeed form part of the tree.

The Isaac sounds like it has potential, Martha;s fathers name was Isaac, The name Isaiah came from FreeReg, and I wonder if the transcriber miss read the entry.

I have not heard of the (Occassional copy A) before either. And every Census after 1861 has drawn a blank.

Oh well, head down and back at it. 

Your help and advice is greatly appreciated.

DaveC

Aylesbury. Bucks

John Sands
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Last seen: 3 years 19 weeks ago
Joined: Wednesday, 30-12-2015

Hello Dave

An occasional copy means a correction has been made. The current procedure can be found at https://www.gov.uk/correct-birth-registration although it would probably have been different in the C19th. It may be worth investing in a .pdf copy to see if that shows the correction.

The GRO death index has:

GILBERT, PRISCILLA

GRO Reference: 1855  D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 245 Age 0

GILBERT, ISAAC

GRO Reference: 1860  M Quarter in PENKRIDGE  Volume 06B  Page 284 Age 2

Penkridge is 10 miles from Wolverhampton and in 1860 the registration district covered a large area.

John

 

 

Peter John
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Last seen: 27 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: Saturday, 2-07-2011

Dave,

I don't know whether these will help but from the GRO death indexes:

Isaac GILBERT - age 2; registered Q1 1860 at Penkridge

Priscilla GILBERT - age 0; registered Q4 1855 at Wolverhampton

Peter

johnp3
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Last seen: 3 weeks 9 hours ago
Joined: Tuesday, 9-02-2021

Hi Dave, I believe I've found the Gilbert Family, You will see that Martha's age fluctuates a lot in the Cens'.

Birth:
First name(s)    Priscilla
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    3
Birth year    1855
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Wolverhampton
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Volume    6B
Page    374
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Death:
First name(s)    Priscilla
Last name    Gilbert
Gender    Female
Birth day    -
Birth month    -
Birth year    -
Age    -
Death quarter    4
Death year    1855
District    Wolverhampton
County    Staffordshire
Volume    6B
Page    245
Country    England
Record set    England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

Birth:
GILBERT, ISAAC         COOPER      
GRO Reference: 1857  S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 447

Death:
GILBERT, ISAAC         2  
GRO Reference: 1860  M Quarter in PENKRIDGE  Volume 06B  Page 284

Birth:
First name(s)    Mary
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    1
Birth year    1859
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Lichfield
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Volume    6B
Page    337
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Birth:
First name(s)    William
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    4
Birth year    1861
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Wolverhampton
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Volume    6B
Page    462
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Birth:
First name(s)    George
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    2
Birth year    1863
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Oswestry
County    Shropshire
Country    England
Volume    6A
Page    699
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Birth:
First name(s)    Martha
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    2
Birth year    1866
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Oswestry
County    Shropshire
Country    England
Volume    6A
Page    691
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Birth:
First name(s)    Sarah
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    2
Birth year    1868
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Lichfield
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Volume    6B
Page    425
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Birth:
First name(s)    William Henry
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    3
Birth year    1870
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Lichfield
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Volume    6B
Page    402
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Birth:
First name(s)    Emma Jane
Last name    Gilbert
Birth quarter    1
Birth year    1874
Mother's maiden name    Cooper
District    Lichfield
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Volume    6B
Page    463
Record set    England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Death:
First name(s)    Emma Jane
Last name    Gilbert
Gender    Female
Birth day    -
Birth month    -
Birth year    1873
Age    3
Death quarter    3
Death year    1876
District    Lichfield
County    Staffordshire
Volume    6B
Page    239
Country    England
Record set    England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

 

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Lombard Street, St Mary, Lichfield, Staffordshire, England

First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
George    Gilbert    Head    -    Male    49    1822    Brickmaker Lichfield, Staffordshire, England
Martha    Gilbert    Wife    -    Female    39    1832    -    Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Mary    Gilbert    Daughter    Female    12    1859    Whittington, Staffordshire, England
William    Gilbert    Son    -    Male    9    1862    -    Bilston, Staffordshire, England
George    Gilbert    Son    -    Male    7    1864    -    Oswestry, Shropshire, England
Martha    Gilbert    Daughter    -    Female    6    1865    -Oswestry,Shropshire, England
Sarah    Gilbert    Daughter    -    Female    2    1869    -Whittington,Staffordshire, England
William H    Gilbert    Son    -    Male    0    1871    -Lichfield,Staffordshire, England

Death:
First name(s)    George
Last name    Gilbert
Gender    Male
Birth day    -
Birth month    -
Birth year    1825
Age    55
Death quarter    2
Death year    1880
District    Lichfield
County    Staffordshire
Volume    6B
Page    260
Country    England
Record set    England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Lombard Street, Lichfield St Mary, Lichfield, Staffordshire, England

First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Martha    Gilbert    Head    Widow    Female    53    1828    Charwoman    Oakengates, Shropshire, England
Mary    Gilbert    Daughter    Single    Female    23    1858    -    Whittington, Derbyshire, England
William    Gilbert    Son    Single    Male    21    1860    Stamper (Artzan)    Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Sarah    Gilbert    Daughter    Single    Female    11    1870    -    Whittington, Derbyshire, England
Henry    Gilbert    Son    Single    Male    10    1871    Scholar    Lichfield, Hampshire, England
Henry    Freeman    Boarder    Married    Male    26    1855    Horse Nail Maker    -

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Smith Street, Bilston, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Martha    Gilbert    Head      Single    Female    56    1835    Brick Dresser    Oakengates, Shropshire, England
Sarah    Gilbert    Daughter  Single    Female    23    1868    Charwoman    Whittington, Staffordshire, England
Henry    Gilbert    Grandson    -    Male    2    1889    -    Bilston, Staffordshire, England
William    Gilbert    Grandson    -    Male    2    1889    -    Bilston, Staffordshire, England

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
2, Baileys Row, Brentford, Old Brentford, Middlesex, England

First name(s)    Last name    Relationship    Marital status    Sex    Age    Birth year    Occupation    Birth place
Martha    Gilbert    Head    Widow    Female    58    1843    -    Okengates, Shropshire, England
Michael    Donoghue    Boarder    Single    Male    42    1859    Agricultural Labourer    Isleworth, Middlesex, England
John    Corkeny    Boarder    Single    Male    52    1849    Agricultural Labourer    Ireland

Best Regards

John Paul J

J.P for short

johnp3
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Last seen: 3 weeks 9 hours ago
Joined: Tuesday, 9-02-2021

Hi Dave, The Baptism's i've found on FMP.

Staffordshire Baptisms:

First name(s)    Sarah   Abode:Whittington
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1868
Baptism date    17 May 1868
Baptism place    Whittington, St Giles
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George  Occ:Brickmaker
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D5931/1
Page    6
Register type    -
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

First name(s)    Emma   Abode:Lombard Street
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1873
Baptism date    13 Dec 1873
Baptism place    Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George  Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D20/1/6
Page    53
Register type    Baptism
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

First name(s)    William Henry   Abode:Lombard Street
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1875
Baptism date    15 Jul 1875
Baptism place    Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George  Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D20/1/6
Page    69
Register type    Baptism
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

First name(s)    Martha    Abode:Lombard Street
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1875
Baptism date    20 Sep 1875
Baptism place    Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D20/1/6
Page    71
Register type    Baptism
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

First name(s)    George    Abode:Lombard Street
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1876
Baptism date    27 Feb 1876
Baptism place    Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D20/1/6
Page    74
Register type    Baptism
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

First name(s)    William    Abode: Lombard Street
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1876
Baptism date    27 Feb 1876
Baptism place    Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George  Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D20/1/6
Page    74
Register type    Baptism
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

First name(s)    Mary    Abode:Lombard Street
Last name    Gilbert
Baptism year    1876
Baptism date    11 Dec 1876
Baptism place    Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination    Anglican
Father's first name(s)    George  Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Staffordshire
Country    England
Archive reference    D20/1/6
Page    84
Register type    Baptism
Record set    Staffordshire Baptisms

Best Regards

J.P

 

 

 

cooper0179
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Last seen: 2 years 21 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 29-10-2020

Further to my initial post, I just wanted to say a big big thank you to everyone who responded to my question, especially johnp3 (JP) for the census information.

It has been an enormous help in filling some gaps in my family tree.

Martha Cooper/Gilbert was my Great Grandfathers sister.

Regards

DaveC

Aykesbury. Bucks