Would it be possible for births to be shown on Parish Registers, but not on the Civil BDM post 1837. I have a Martha Cooper in my tree, Born Wombrdige 1837, she moves to Bilston Staffs between 1841 and 1851. She marries 1854 to George Gilbert at St Lukes Methodist Church, and this shows up on both Parish and Civil BDM. The Church Baptism records show 2 x children to this couple, (Emma 1855 and Isaiah 1857) however, I cannot find details of these births on any Civil BDM site. They are also proving difficult to find on any Census records post 1851.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Dave C
Aylesbury, Bucks
Many Thanks Mike.
I have looked at the entry for Priscilla before, (scrathed my head over it) and then dismissed it.
I will go back again and see if I can find if she does indeed form part of the tree.
The Isaac sounds like it has potential, Martha;s fathers name was Isaac, The name Isaiah came from FreeReg, and I wonder if the transcriber miss read the entry.
I have not heard of the (Occassional copy A) before either. And every Census after 1861 has drawn a blank.
Oh well, head down and back at it.
Your help and advice is greatly appreciated.
DaveC
Aylesbury. Bucks
Hello Dave
An occasional copy means a correction has been made. The current procedure can be found at https://www.gov.uk/correct-birth-registration although it would probably have been different in the C19th. It may be worth investing in a .pdf copy to see if that shows the correction.
The GRO death index has:
GILBERT, PRISCILLA
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 245 Age 0
GILBERT, ISAAC
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in PENKRIDGE Volume 06B Page 284 Age 2
Penkridge is 10 miles from Wolverhampton and in 1860 the registration district covered a large area.
John
Dave,
I don't know whether these will help but from the GRO death indexes:
Isaac GILBERT - age 2; registered Q1 1860 at Penkridge
Priscilla GILBERT - age 0; registered Q4 1855 at Wolverhampton
Peter
Hi Dave, I believe I've found the Gilbert Family, You will see that Martha's age fluctuates a lot in the Cens'.
Birth:
First name(s) Priscilla
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 3
Birth year 1855
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Wolverhampton
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 374
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Death:
First name(s) Priscilla
Last name Gilbert
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year -
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 1855
District Wolverhampton
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B
Page 245
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Birth:
GILBERT, ISAAC COOPER
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 447
Death:
GILBERT, ISAAC 2
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in PENKRIDGE Volume 06B Page 284
Birth:
First name(s) Mary
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 1
Birth year 1859
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 337
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Birth:
First name(s) William
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 4
Birth year 1861
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Wolverhampton
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 462
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Birth:
First name(s) George
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 2
Birth year 1863
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Oswestry
County Shropshire
Country England
Volume 6A
Page 699
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Birth:
First name(s) Martha
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 2
Birth year 1866
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Oswestry
County Shropshire
Country England
Volume 6A
Page 691
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Birth:
First name(s) Sarah
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 2
Birth year 1868
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 425
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Birth:
First name(s) William Henry
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 3
Birth year 1870
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 402
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Birth:
First name(s) Emma Jane
Last name Gilbert
Birth quarter 1
Birth year 1874
Mother's maiden name Cooper
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 463
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Death:
First name(s) Emma Jane
Last name Gilbert
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1873
Age 3
Death quarter 3
Death year 1876
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B
Page 239
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Lombard Street, St Mary, Lichfield, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Gilbert Head - Male 49 1822 Brickmaker Lichfield, Staffordshire, England
Martha Gilbert Wife - Female 39 1832 - Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Mary Gilbert Daughter Female 12 1859 Whittington, Staffordshire, England
William Gilbert Son - Male 9 1862 - Bilston, Staffordshire, England
George Gilbert Son - Male 7 1864 - Oswestry, Shropshire, England
Martha Gilbert Daughter - Female 6 1865 -Oswestry,Shropshire, England
Sarah Gilbert Daughter - Female 2 1869 -Whittington,Staffordshire, England
William H Gilbert Son - Male 0 1871 -Lichfield,Staffordshire, England
Death:
First name(s) George
Last name Gilbert
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1825
Age 55
Death quarter 2
Death year 1880
District Lichfield
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B
Page 260
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Lombard Street, Lichfield St Mary, Lichfield, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Martha Gilbert Head Widow Female 53 1828 Charwoman Oakengates, Shropshire, England
Mary Gilbert Daughter Single Female 23 1858 - Whittington, Derbyshire, England
William Gilbert Son Single Male 21 1860 Stamper (Artzan) Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Sarah Gilbert Daughter Single Female 11 1870 - Whittington, Derbyshire, England
Henry Gilbert Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Lichfield, Hampshire, England
Henry Freeman Boarder Married Male 26 1855 Horse Nail Maker -
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Smith Street, Bilston, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Martha Gilbert Head Single Female 56 1835 Brick Dresser Oakengates, Shropshire, England
Sarah Gilbert Daughter Single Female 23 1868 Charwoman Whittington, Staffordshire, England
Henry Gilbert Grandson - Male 2 1889 - Bilston, Staffordshire, England
William Gilbert Grandson - Male 2 1889 - Bilston, Staffordshire, England
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
2, Baileys Row, Brentford, Old Brentford, Middlesex, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Martha Gilbert Head Widow Female 58 1843 - Okengates, Shropshire, England
Michael Donoghue Boarder Single Male 42 1859 Agricultural Labourer Isleworth, Middlesex, England
John Corkeny Boarder Single Male 52 1849 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
Best Regards
John Paul J
J.P for short
Hi Dave, The Baptism's i've found on FMP.
Staffordshire Baptisms:
First name(s) Sarah Abode:Whittington
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1868
Baptism date 17 May 1868
Baptism place Whittington, St Giles
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Brickmaker
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D5931/1
Page 6
Register type -
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
First name(s) Emma Abode:Lombard Street
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1873
Baptism date 13 Dec 1873
Baptism place Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D20/1/6
Page 53
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
First name(s) William Henry Abode:Lombard Street
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1875
Baptism date 15 Jul 1875
Baptism place Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D20/1/6
Page 69
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
First name(s) Martha Abode:Lombard Street
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1875
Baptism date 20 Sep 1875
Baptism place Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D20/1/6
Page 71
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
First name(s) George Abode:Lombard Street
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1876
Baptism date 27 Feb 1876
Baptism place Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D20/1/6
Page 74
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
First name(s) William Abode: Lombard Street
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1876
Baptism date 27 Feb 1876
Baptism place Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D20/1/6
Page 74
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
First name(s) Mary Abode:Lombard Street
Last name Gilbert
Baptism year 1876
Baptism date 11 Dec 1876
Baptism place Lichfield, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) George Occ:Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D20/1/6
Page 84
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Best Regards
J.P
Further to my initial post, I just wanted to say a big big thank you to everyone who responded to my question, especially johnp3 (JP) for the census information.
It has been an enormous help in filling some gaps in my family tree.
Martha Cooper/Gilbert was my Great Grandfathers sister.
Regards
DaveC
Aykesbury. Bucks
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Hello Dave
Whilst Civil Registration started on 1st July 1837 there were those who were reluctant to get involved in the new system and just stuck to having their children baptised. In the case of your Martha COOPER her birth was registered Q3 1837 in the Wellington Registration District but checking the General Register Office (GRO) web site it seems that her mother's maiden name is unclear in the original record and is listed as ...DAY.
Whilst I can't see a Birth registration for Isaiah GILBERT in 1857 the following entry appears in the GRO Indexes so may be there was some uncertainty about his actual forename.
GILBERT, ISAAC COOPER
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 447
Again, looking in the GRO Birth Indexes for Emma GILBERT in 1855 does not bring up anyone of that name but it does bring up the following two entries which seem to refer to the same child.
GILBERT, PRISCILLA COOPER
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 374
GILBERT, PRISCILLA COOPER
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 374 Occasional Copy: A
I don't know the significance of the words 'Occasional Copy: A'.
The method of finding these entries is to put the father's surname in the surname at birth field and the mother's maiden surname in the appropriate box and then just enter the year with +/- 2 and the sex of the child then press 'Search'.
I have not been able to find the family in the 1861 census.
Mike