My grandfather, Henry Glassey JONES (born 21/10/1877 in Chorlton, Hulme, Manchester -, I have his birth certificate), along with his older brother, William, was brought up by his Grandfather William WILLIAMS in Edstaston, Wem.
At the age of 3 Harry appears on the 1881 Census living in Edstaston, Wem. I know what happened to him subsequently. However, he would never talk about what happened to his mother Ann JONES or his father Thomas JONES who, at the time of Henry Glassey's birth lived in Chorlton, Hulme, Manchester. It remains a family mystery what happened.
I am finding it difficult to trace the marriage and deaths of these two parents because they have such frequently used names. I have Ann WILLIAM's birth certificate.
I want to find out if maybe Ann WILLIAMS and Thomas JONES got married in Wem probably between 1870 (she is not in Wem with her family in 1871 Census ) and 1874 when William JONES (Henry Glassey's older brother) was born .
I find possibles for marriage and deaths, but how can I be sure without seeing the full certificate - and there are too many "possibles" to send for them.
I could spend time in the Shropshire Records Office if this would help. Any advice is welcome as I am new to this !!
Hello Mike
Thanks for the suggestions . I'll try chasing William !
Barbara
Barbara,
Are you able to tell us:
a) the address (as shown on his birth certificate) that Henry Glassey JONES was born at;
b) his father's occupation - if given;
b) where & when his elder brother William was born;
c) their mother's date of birth?
Just like Mike, I cannot find a workable marriage record for Ann and Thomas.
Peter
Thank you for your interest.
On Henry Glassey JONES' marrriage certificate, his father is named as Thomas JONES (deceased)
Barbara
Barbara,
The census information for no. 4 Warde Street does not seem to directly add anything of value to your search.
In 1871 it was occupied by William & Annie SIMISTER and their 2 children and in 1881 it was occupied by Rosannah HARGREAVES & George MUNRO - all of whom were Lancashire born.
That said, perhaps one or more of these surnames may strike a chord with you?
Whilst I was visiting Shropshire Archives earlier this week, in search of my own highly-elusive grandfather, I searched the death & burial records and the Shrewsbury Chronicle for any references to Ann JONES. I did this by reference to the (GRO index) registration of a death in quarter 1 of 1880 in Wem for an Ann JONES, aged 27.
Although this age is compatible with Ann’s birth in April 1852, and the date of death could explain her absence from the 1881 census, regrettably nothing at all emerged from these searches.
With regard to the burial records, those for Wem Cemetery are not at the Archives and will need to be separately researched.
Peter
Hello
If anyone is visiting Shropshire Archives, the Wem burials are available on microfiche and should include those for the Whitchurch Road Cemetery.
Those for the period 1866-1900 are on microfiche 18-20. The white sleeve should indicate which one includes the early part of 1880.
Mike
Sorry to Barbara and thanks to Mike for picking up on my faux pas.
I hope that some kind soul can spare the time to look at the relevant fiche and I will be delighted if they will find something that I have missed.
Peter
Barbara,
Late last night I chanced across what I believe to be a firm indication that your great-grandmother Ann JONES (nee WILLIAMS) died in 1883.
I have not yet had the chance to work this through and I have to go out shortly - so I will write again in greater detail later this afternoon.
Peter
Barbara,
There is a public family tree in Ancestry which contains a legible image of the headstone for the grave of your great-great-grandparents Ann & William WILLIAMS - which shows their (respective) dates of death as 28 April 1875 and 27 December 1900.
Within this particular tree there is also a (unsourced) date of death, of 13 March 1883, for your great-grandmother Ann WILLIAMS plus a (unsourced) date of death, of 17 August 1884, for her younger sister Emma WILLIAMS.
Correspondingly, in the Shropshire Burial Registers in Findmypast, in the parish of Edstaston there are the following three burials recorded:
3 May 1875 - Ann WILLIAMS, aged 51 years, of Moor Head
17 March 1883 - Ann JONES, aged 29 years, of Moor Head
20 August 1884 - Emma WILLIAMS, aged 20 years, of Moor Head
The Ancestry tree is named the Evans Gronnow Family Tree and can be accessed by searching via: Ann HALL, birth 1824 in Malpas Cheshire & death 28 April 1871 (note: not 1875) in Edstaston Shropshire.
The tree owner does not appear to be currently active in Ancestry but he does list a blogspot website in his profile, which in turn has an e-mail address for him at the foot of the “about me” section.
Unfortunately, knowing that your great-grandmother was alive at the time of the 1881 census has not made her any easier to find!
Peter
Hello Barbara
There is a transcript of the gravestones at Edstaston which you can purchase from the Shropshire FHS (see Shop near the top right search for Edstaston). It includes at least three gravestones for your family.
Originally the three stones were grouped in a triangle in the south east of the churchyard and close to the path. Unfortunately the majority of the older gravestones were moved from their original positions in 1975 and placed in rows adjacent to the boundary. Your three stones are still together near the south east corner but now against the boundary wall. There should be two other stones nearer the corner after yours in that row.
The transcript of the MIs confirms the information given by Peter and they were probably the source of the unsourced information in his second paragraph above.
Mike
Barbara,
Recorded in the 1881 census entry for no. 84 Bishop Street, Moss Side, Chorlton, Manchester (in the household of Thomas Howard) there is a 28-year old Domestic Servant by the name of Annie JONES.
Her marital status is given as Widow and her birth place simply as Shrewsbury.
You may already know this, but Moss Side is cheek-by-jowl with Hulme.
Peter
Wow.I am overwhelmed.It has been some time since I last found time to get back to Ann WILLIAMS and Thomas JONES. Thank you so much, Peter and Mike, for all this information. A story seems to be emerging. I need to digest it all and to try to track down Thomas's death. Barbara
Thanks to your help I now have the Death Certificate of Ann JONES, my great-grandmother. On it she is described as "Wife of Thomas JONES, shoemaker", but it is her father who has signed as informant. Wouldn't she have been described as widow rather than wife if Thomas had died. So, unlikely to have been the "Annie" domestic servant.
Barbara,
As you already have Thomas JONES described as "deceased" on Henry's birth certificate (which information will have been contemporaneously provided by his mother Ann) it would seem that this status is likely to be more reliable than the unwidowed status of "wife" later ascribed to Ann by (her father) William WILLIAMS.
I hope you do not mind but I would like to take this opportunity to ask if you have considered why Ann named her second son Henry, perhaps rather than Thomas (after her recently-deceased husband), and also why she gave him the unusual second forename of Glassey.
Peter
Sorry Peter but Thomas JONES was described as deceased on Henry's Marriage certificate not his birth certificate.Thomas was living in Chorlton, Hulme, Manchester at the time of Henry's birth according to OP's initial post.
Regards
Malcolm.
Thank you for this Malcolm. Just as my schoolteachers used to try to drum into me "I really must pay more attention".
Thomas being alive at the time of his child's birth, to me at least, makes the choice of the given forenames even more intriguing.
Peter
I have been intrigued at the name 'Glassey", but can recall no discussion of it in the family! It seems an unusual name. I am staying in the Shrewsbury area next week so hope to get to the Records Office as well as take some photographs of the area.
Barbara,
In your earlier posts you mentioned your grandfather's elder brother, William JONES.
With regard to William, have you discovered anything more about him beyond the 1881 & 1891 censuses?
I ask this because, and you may already be aware of this, there is a William JONES that may be him in the 1901 & 1911 censuses.
Peter
Peter.-Yes- My father wrote an account of what he knew of the family. He remembered visiting and describes in detail visiting his Uncle Will and his family. He and Henry became gardeners boys for a Miss GUISE and lived at the Lodge in Hadnall. I have to confess that we did go to stay in the area and the weather was so good that Stiperstones and The Long Mynd won out over the Records Office. I spent time in the beautiful church and graveyard at Edstatson - a moving experience to see and photograph the family gravestones. A very peaceful spot. No knowledge of Glassey yet.
Barbara,
I hope that the following may be of interest.
Historically, in the context of the England & Wales censuses, the surname of GLASSEY seems to have been most prevalent in Shropshire (and in neighbouring Cheshire)
For example, in the 1881 census there were just 162 people recorded with the surname of GLASSEY - of which 38 lived in Shropshire & 15 in Cheshire (source: http://www.britishsurnames.co.uk/surname/glassey/1881census).
A similar picture emerges from a distribution map for the 1891 census in Ancestry (source: http://www.ancestry.co.uk/name-origin?surname=glassey).
The various censuses also show that the GLASSEY-surnamed family living nearest to Edstaston resided (about 3 miles away) at Hough Farm in Prees and that one member of this family was named Henry.
This Henry GLASSEY (1825-1894) was born, lived and died on the farm, which he took over after his father's death, and he seems never to have married.
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hello Barbara
There is a free index to Shropshire Marriages for the period 1837 to 1935 (both dates approximate) on the Shropshire BMD web site (part of UKBMD) but it only produces one result for a marriage between a Thomas JONES and Ann(e) WILLIAMS for 1872 (+/- 5 years) and that is at Cardington in south Shropshire. The groom would have been born c.1850 and the bride c.1849.
The Shropshire parish registers (baptisms, marriages and burials) are available on the subscription web site Find my Past (put Shropshire in the search box) up to 1900 and this web site only lists the same marriage that I have mentioned above.
Returning to the free UKBMD site, if you search the Lancashire section for a Thomas JONES marrying Ann(e) WILLIAMS c.1872 (+/- 5 years) you will only get two results, both in the Liverpool area, one in 1878 and the other in 1880. These are probably both too late for your couple.
There is a similar index for Cheshire but this only produces one possible match for a marriage at Chester sometime between 1861 to 1865 which is probably a bit early for you.
It is always possible that the parents never married for whatever reason but I presume the birth certificate for Henry Glassey JONES gives the impression they were married.
Have you obtained the birth certificate for Henry's brother William? It would be interesting to know whether it tells the same story or a different one.
Mike