I have recently discovered a Ludlow ancestor. Can anyone advise me on obtaining marriage details for Richard Poles (Powles) born in 1815 who married Ann also born 1814. I have not been able to find their marriage on Ancestry or FMP. I know from 1851 census that he was living in Ludlow (lower godford?) and in 1841 Lower Broad Street.
So any help finding and accessing marriage and or birth records from the Parish would be great
Also looking for the birth record of their daughter Helen (Ellen) born 1853 Ludlow
thanks
Chris
Bit more. To clarify, for the "parent" search insert on the right Richard Powles and Ann. Leave out the Genner.
I see that the IGI groups Genner with Jenner, not with Genno; and so in due course you may need to try both - not that there is any sign of her so far. The lower case entries show merely that some one or more person has had a past interest, but is stuck. Thankfully the IGI seems not to group Powles or Poles with Powell.
The coverage by the IGI tails off after 1812, and Herefs, close to Ludlow is thinly covered at all periods.
I may look up the 1836 marriage entry in full later this week at Shropshire Archives, so "call in" here from time to time.
Thank you so much for your response to my enquiry, I have used IGI in the past without much success but your advice is really helpful.
The 1851 census does state he was born 'Salop Ludlow" occupation Shoemaker I think, although the original census form is not too clear.
It would be brilliant to get details from their marriage entry if you are able. I had considered making a visit to Ludlow or wherever in Shropshire the records are held so am very appreciative of your very kind assistance with my search.
Christine Kerr
Here is that marriage, from fiche of Ludlow registers:
Richard Powles Bachelor of the parish of Ludlow and Ann Genner Spinster of the parish of Ludlow married by banns 28.1.1836, by R Baugh, Rector. Both parties sign, she as Ann Powls, late Genner added.
Witnesses John Phillips and E Meredith. It is just possible that the John Phillips was he who was later Rector of Ludlow - more in a mo - but the signature looks ordinary rather than well-educated.
I have looked at the 1851 Census entry. Nothing to add, though the place /road was Lower Gaolford, on the east side of the town, earlier spelt Galdeford, I believe.
I see Ann in 1861 Census (RG9/1836/23/10) as a widow aged 47, acting as a nurse in the household of Revd John Phillips, the Rector, and his wife Frances. His origins were in Pontesbury, bap there 1794. (I have studied his ancestry for a friend who is a great-great-grandson; the wife Frances was an Anderson of Ludlow)
On reflection later at home I now think that there might be a gap in the IGI coverage of Ludlow baptisms after 1812, but resuming perhaps by 1820 or so (and that I had to make searches in fiches some years back). I need to think of a way of checking this online. If correct it may be that Richard and Ann's baptisms are there all along. Again, I might check for you, but this will be more time-consuming and I could not promise it straightaway.
Thank you for taking the time to search for the marriage record, it is amazing to have such detail. Ann and Richard are great great grandparents to my husband who up until recently, when we saw the Ludlow entry on the census forms, believed his ancestors to be from Birmingham.
I certainly would not have found my way this far back and really do appreciate your help in providing us with the information.
I shall look forward to any news on the Baptisms as and when you are able to look.
Thanks again
Chris
Having now recalled some old work, I have checked in IGI Salop for the issue (that I had seen in the registers of Ludlow) of an Edward Powell and his wife Elizabeth (Langslow) who were married there in 1803. A parent search shows their issue, as real entries, from 1804 to at least 1819.
Thus a Richard Powles / Poles or even Powel/l around 1815 would show up if baptised there. I cannot thefore myself justify an on spec search for the off-chance of some other spelling not grouped by the IGI.
As the same seems to be true for Ann Genner the question perhaps is whether they came from some other parish, in Salop or adjacent, that is not covered by the IGI after 1812.
If you would like this considered professionally I suggest a member of SFHS, Mr Chris Potter, a distinguished retired headmaster who now lives in Ludlow. In addition to a range of research services he has compiled a complete list of Shropshire Wills proved at Hereford. cfrpotter@clara.co.uk . Isuggest copying and pasting this thread to him.
Postscript. Please look in again Chris, in case further thoughts or info.
Ludlow baps again (change of mind!);
4.6.1814 Mary Ann d of Elizabeth Gennor, Dinham, servant.
2.5.1816 Richard s of Richard and Sarah Powys, Corve Street, labourer (This entry was so feint that I obtained permission to see the original register, now falling apart).
I suggest that the first item is the one sought. Almost certainly illegitimate. There are at least three possibilities for the baptism of Elizabeth, as Genner or Gennor, at Caynham next east of Ludlow, at Bitterley,next north of Caynham, and at Bedstone some miles west. Somehow you will need to track the mother's later fate. Did she marry or die fairly young, unmarried? Is she in 1841 or 1861 Census, Salop or Herefs, still single? (I cannot help from home).
The second, Powys, item is a chancy suggestion. The difficulty is that "your" Richard Powles was literate at his marriage (so this was not an error by the clerk); while the surname Powis / Powys had been around in Ludlow and nearby for several hundred years, earlier as gents.
Might I suggest that you e-mail webmaster@sfhs.org.uk; and give your phone number. Graham can then forward to me. I can then expand on all this.
What interesting information, as an amateur genealogist I am so impressed with your findings.
It is also interesting and quite a coincidence that we know Chris Potter as he taught A level latin to our eldest son at Old Swinford Hospital School!
I will contact Graham and let you have my phone number as I would love to hear more about the ancestors.
How do I copy and paste the thread to forward as an e mail?
thanks once again
Chris
To copy the Topic, currently, the only way I have found, is to have the topic open, then use Ctrl+A (to select all), then Ctrl+C (to copy it), then you can paste it into you email. You may wish to paste it into a word processor first to tidy it up a bit.
However if you just want someone to see the Topic in-situ, then click on the envelope symbol at the bottom of the right-hand column and follow the prompts, this will email a link for the topic.
How do I copy and paste the thread to forward as an e mail?
Hello Chris
There are two ways you can achieve this.
1. Drag your mouse pointer from the top left to the bottom right of each separate message one at a time so that the text is highlighted in blue. At this time RIGHT click on the text and select Copy OR press Ctrl-C. You can then Paste the text into your email message using Edit, Paste OR Ctrl-V.
2. The alternative is to include a link to the whole thread in your email so that the recipient can read the whole thread. To do this, have the thread on the screen, then click in the address panel at the very top of the screen so that the text is highlighted in blue and use the same procedure as described in the second sentence in No.1 above. The text you copy should look like this:-
http://www.sfhs.org.uk/forum/powles-or-poles-richard - I usually paste a link like this below the other text in my email but you can put it anywhere. It is much better to start it on a new line so that it doesn't get broken by the word wrap.
Mike
I fear that you can rule out the Richard Powys, bap 1816 at Ludlow. He is at Bucknell, Salop (next to Bedstone, and on the Rads border) in 1881 Census as Richard Bowis / Powis, then a tailor. You can check for free via Family Search.
If, in any event, you are interested in earlier parts of that family, some of the pedigree is in old editions of Burke's Perrage under Barons Lilford.
So, was Richard Powl(e)s bap in a parish near Ludlow or were his parents non-conformist? And if so are the relevant registers not covered by IGI? You can see lists of holdings at Archives by going into www.shropshire.gov.uk > Leisure and Culture > Archives > What we hold and look for two pdf documents. In the IGI you can use the Library icon. That will give you lists of registers that have been filmed by the Mormon church - but that does not necessarily mean that all are yet in the Index.
I think that Caynham is covered after 1812. Not sure about Ludford (which, by the way, was still then in Herefs).
Haven't read all of the contents of this thread but thought I would just intrude to say that I am researching the Gennoe line (my grandfathers surname) in Shrewsbury.
A second cousin living in Australia has done a lot of research and has found them still in Shropshire right back to the 1400s! She is due to send me a copy of her family tree soon. I have only traced my direct line (as I always like to do my own research anyway, even with a families research) back to the early 1800s and they all live where my Mum does now, in Castlefields Shrewsbury!
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Hello. It sounds as if you are unaware of the IGI (the International Genealogical Index - a standard tool). If so go into FAQ at the top.
This gives, from actual record, the marriage of Richard Powles and Ann Genner 28.1.1836 at St Laurence's, Ludlow. The record will not give their father's names - as prior to civil registration - but witnesses might be useful.
Going back to IGI, if you make a parent search (right-hand columns only, no child's names) for Salop 10 years either side of 1845 you will find the baptisms of several children, including Ellen in Dec 1852. The registation of her birth was delayed until the new year. It is in FreeBMD for March quarter 1853.
I have a hunch that Richard was not born in Salop. What did he say in 1851? Genner will be a variant of Gen(n)o(e) - at one time a frequent surname in Salop.