Letitia JONES b.1811 Shropshire

Hi Lindsey

Have you got any other records for her? I used info on her daughter Harriet from the 1851 Census to trace "Letice" in 1841 Census. They were living in Bedwelty, Monmouthshire, including a John JONES, 40 years old, born outside Monmouthshire and occupation described as Tin Man. Although 1841 Census does not desrcibe relationships it is reasonable to assume that John was Letice's husband and the four youngsters were their children: Harriet 14 years, Ann 12 years, John 7 years and William 3 months. All of the children were born in Monmouthshire. It is reasonable to assume that John died between 1841 and 1851, and that he married Letice before 1827 (based on Hariet being born c.1827).

More info ... If you subscribe to the findmypast website you can find baptism of Harriet on 13th  June 1827 in Bedwelty with parents described as John JONES, Tinman and Lettice. They were living in Tredegar. Unfortunately there is no image of the baptism record but under notes it states "Benjamin PRICE". This note may refer to the minister conducting the baptism as similar note appears on baptisms of Ann in 1829 and John in 1833, whilst baptism of William in 1841 has the note "Edward KNIGHT".

They also had another child Elenor baptised in 1826 in Tredegar.

If the above are related to Letitia PRICE born 1807, then she was only 19 years old when she gave birth to Elenor.

Hope this helps. 

Regards

Phil

PS Some of the baptisms are part of "Monmouthshire Baptisms", and some are published on findmypast via Gwent Family History Society.

Hello Lindsey

I can't find any trace of a place called 'Cherry Field' or 'Cherryfield' but there is/was a Cherrytree Farm, Hand Lane, Sheriffhales which seems a bit of a coincidence.

Looking at the 1851 census that you refer to (HO.107/2454 folio 164 page 66) I see that Letice JONES and her family are living in a tent in Forest Road and that Letice is described as a Vendor of Baskets with two of the children being basket makers.

The next family on the 1851 census page are also living in a tent and the head is descibed as a Razor Grinder. I think these two families may have been what were described as Gypsies.  If that assumption is correct then it is quite possible that Letice was born in a field.

I will leave you to consider the possibilities.

Mike

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the look-up on the JONES' baptisms and I didn't have the accurate date for Harriet's baptism and so that has been really helpful. Thank you.

The full story is that I have been trying to establish a link between 'Cherryfield' and Sherriffhales to determine whether the Letitia JONES, b. 1811 Cherryfield (as shown on the '51 Census) is the same person as a Letitia PRICE b. 1807 Sheriffhales that I am currently researching. I am pretty confident that the match is good but was just seeking local knowledge to finalise the link. As we all know, sometimes a certain field or an area of woodland is given a local name but they are not always recognised as such on the OS maps.

Again, thanks for your help and it was very much appreciated.

Lindsey

Hi Mike,

Yes, i am researching Romani families and so things can get a little vague concerning records and names. As you correctly point out, both JONES and PRICE families were 'gypsy' and so that's why I mentioned the possibility of the 'Cherryfield' locality being given to the enumerator as a p.o.b but was very likely referring to 'the cherry field' at Sherriffhales. As you say, the presence of the Cherry Tree farm strongly suggests a link here but it would be lovely to have a Sherriffhales resident to say, 'oh, I know the old cherry field'

You also noticed the presence of Richard PRICEon the '51 census and, if I can tie all this in, he was the brother of Letitia JONES nee PRICE.

Again, thanks for your input on this .. and it has been very much appreciated.

Lindsey

Hi Lindsey,

There is some discussion on RootsChat about the occupation "Tinman", so probably further evidence of a link between the 1851 Census record and the baptism records I included on earlier message.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=37025.0

Have you got the 1861 Census record fror Richard PRICE? He was living in same place as in 1851, with more children, including an older child (Angelina b.1844) that was not on 1851 Census. It might be worth trying to get birth certificate of one of his children to determine his wife's maiden name, then searching for marriage certificate. If he was born c.1823 then he looks as thouh he married  in mid-1840's, possibly in his wife's home county of Camarthanshire.If you find it then it should give name of his father plus names of witnesses may be useful.

Regards

Phil

Hi Phil,

I read the 'tin man' thread with some interest. Although it is very well known that the occupations of Romani travelers given on Census returns were often good signposts as to their origins, it is also true, as has been pointed out to the OP of the 'tin man' thread, that not all hawkers or tin plate workers were Romani travelers.

Anyway, as a basic rule, if there are Census references to basket vendors or makers, razor grinders, tinner or tin man, sweep, carter or hawker etc on the returns then this generally implies, if the surnames agree (Romani names are well documented), that the people listed were of a traveling or Romani background. More obvious indications are 'road side tent' as an address and it is also commonly seen that children appear to be born in different locations too.

I do have the 1861 for Richard PRICE but I was really just trying to prove the possibility of a location link between the Cherry Fields place of birth reference for Letitia (Letice) JONES and the known place of birth of Letitia PRICE, b.1807 which is given as Sheriffhales. I am reasonably happy to say that I think that the link is there, especially with the presence of the Cherry Tree farm, as Mike has pointed out. And the presence of Richard PRICE with Letitia JONES in the 1851 just helps to confirm the relationship is there.

Its always a very tricky task trying to unravel the traveling Jones and the PRICEs! It appears that my 2x gt grandmother was baptised about 18 times (that we have found records for) in different churches throughout Shropshire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire.

Btw .. I'm am also interested in the Florence (Shropshire and Staffs) and Warner (Builth and Herefordshire) Romani families too.

Thanks again for your input .. always appreciated.

Lindsey

Just to tidy this one up a little in case anyone wants to use the information at some time in the future.

Going back through my notes gathered from various sources .. I can now say that the Richard PRICE mentioned above was not the probable brother of Letitia JONES as stated but was a different Richard PRICE born in 1824 Worcestershire with wife Elizabeth (nee WILLIAMS). His father's name is given on a marriage certificate as William PRICE. Perhaps related in some way but not siblings.

Lindsey