Help with place names for Richard DAVIES and Ann BLOWER

sorry about that my 'l' keeps sticking, so for the above message pls put in 'l' where appropriate.

thanks

"Stoke upon farm" might be Stoke Upon Tern, a village and parish to the north-east of Shrewsbury but closer to (and south-west of) Market Drayton.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=52.84932302786111~-2.5313572407543328&l...

Are you able to scan the certificate and upload ithe scan somewhere?

Steve

I agree with Steve that Stoke-on/upon-Tern is likely; and might look up the original entry in St George's (which covered the Frankwell area beyond the Welsh Bridge); but perhaps not until Saturday.

Was Richard later a schoolmaster? i.e the one seen in Wharton, Cheshire in 1881, aged 51 (as also Ann)? This hunch based on first child Marian having been born in Hinstock - next to S-o-T. If so, we might as well look also for Ann Blower's bap around 1830 in Meole Brace - not covered by IGI after 1812. But you may have found her with parents elsewhere in 1851 Census (cannot help).

FamilySearch shows the baptism of an Ann Blower at Shrewsbury St Chad on 21 Dec 1828, parents Thomas Blower and Mary:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/9WGN-P7N/p1

Steve

Hi all

thanks for that your posts have answered both my questions, yes, it probaby is stoke upon tern and the other name is frankwell. where is frankwell and is it still there to day.

richard was christened at st georges pontesbury 1828 and lived at pontesford hill his dad was william davies and his mom elizabeth roberts.  william was a blacksmith(any poss pictures of william as a blacksmith in pontesford in 1820.  william was born in 1808 in church stoke.  william and elizabeth married in pontesbury 1808.  richard and ann went on to have my gret grandmother elizab davies  born 1857 in pontesbury (she s buried in st georges at pontesbury) she married sam evans, a ley preacher and carpenter and lived at the engine house, pontesbury which is now a listed building (but certainly not then)

according to 1901 census ann is living with her daughter and son in law eliza nd samuel evans (must be at the engine house) says she born in 1834 in pontesbury.but my other research says she christened 21.12.1828 in st chads, shrewsbury father thomas and mary, she  born on 5.5.1828.

thanks

molly

have looked throuth census returns when she is married to richard davies and he is a journey blacksmith, i take it that means he moved around.  each time she puts downthat she was born in pontesbury in 1834.  her marriage cert states that at the time of her wedding she was living in frankwell and her dad was thomas blower.

just cant find them

As I said, Frankwell is the area across the welsh Bridge (from the main town centre of Shrewsbury). Known to its older residents as "the little borough", as a token of a sort of semi-independence in early days when it was possible to trade there outside the strict control of the (real) Borough Guilds. Always in St Chad's until the new parish of St George's was carved out.

Have you seen the full entry for that 1828 baptism at St Chad's of Ann(e0 Blower? Her father's occupation should (as after 1812) be given.

Using known events in research on another family I can see that Pontesbury baptisms are in IGI until at least 1836. Do you have Mrs Anne Davies' age at death?

Just a teeny suspicion that the 1855 marriage might not be the right one - i.e. Ann not a Blower. But do you have a birth cert of a child to confirm that surname?

Journeyman was used to refer to an employed tradesman in contrast to the master. You can check the etymology but I have thought that the journey element stems from French journee, here meaning day's work: i.e. no job security.

Here's a map showing Frankwell as it is today:

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=52.71271537026505~-2.7602069999999967&l...

A little more about Frankwell, confirming what Martyn said above:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankwell

A little more here:

http://www.cappadocia.org.uk/history/

Some Frankwell photos on this, the SFHS website:

http://www.sfhs.org.uk/shrewsbury-frankwell

And more about the term 'journeyman' (again confirming what Martyn says above):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman

Steve

thanks steve and martyn.

i think iv found ann born in 1833/34 in pontesbury, 1841

eleanor bower 45 (widow) mary 12

ann 8

emma 5

marriage for thomas blower and eleanor jones 1822 in pontesbury.

i think ann must have been a servant perhaps in frankwell when she got married. witnesses on the wed cert for richard and ann were william davies, richards dad and ann davies, so non of ann blowers family. dont have a birth cert for ann because i did not think you could get these before 1837. 

thanks for all help and will certainly look through the sites you gave me steve

steph

Hi all

richard davies in 1871 has now taken over as blacksmith in pontesbury, must have taken over from william davies who was the blacksmith in pontesbury before that.

thanks all again

steph

If you make a "parent" search in IGI for Salop - top right-hand panels only - against Thomas Blower and Eleanor [ don't add her surname ] for 10 years either side of 1830 you will see other children, and a gap where Ann might be. The sons may have left home to work by 1841. You might want to trace them.

Are you saying that you found the family under "Bower" or is this your typo?

If Eleanor was indeed then a widow where is Thomas's death or burial? Not in SBI at Pontesbury (or elsewhere at an approp age after 1834), but query whether burial was at his (other) parish of origin and not in SBI. Check FreeBMD. Only Thomas in Shropshire up to end 1841 died in Wolverhampton District in 1840.

You might like to try in early Censuses (1851 onwards) for the other Thomases Blower whose baps are in IGI from, say, 1790 - for purposes of elimination.

Bit more. You will find the John, bap 1824 at Alberebury, at Short Hill, Pontesbury in 1881, born about 1825, a bricklayer, born in (misspelt) Alberbury. Per SBI, the Thomas, bap 1826 at A, was buried 14.3.1833 at P, of Cruck Meole, aged 6. (The latter is almost in Hanwood).

Hi Martyn

yes it should have read blower, my l keeps sticking.  on 1841 census, the word widow is very faint nd actually at the side of mary, but she is 12.  one of the neighbours is a william blower 67 and mary blower wm is an ag lab, could these be thomas parents.  where is cruck meole.  also diverting to richard davies in pontesbury is it new mills and is it still there and back street although richard davies's dad wm had his blacksmiths place in pontesford hill.

yes, i realise i must do some digging so as not to go down wrong track, i v found on 1851 a thomas blower ag ab b 1798 yeckleton, with ellinor 1791 llanyminech, john ag ab alberbury and ann born in trap. is trap anywhere near pontesbury/pontesford.

not sure if its right to say annoying or strange, but have relatives of this family still living in pontesbury and shrewsbury but they know nothing of the fam history and are leaving it to me to do research.

one other question if i may, is the name thomblings very common in the pontesbury/pontsford area, this research and the above is all on my dads mother's side, his dads side came from shrewsbury.

hi steve

just looked through the various web sites you suggested, thanks for that.

Noted Molly. I have been at Archives this morning before seeing your last post and had no difficulty in finding your Ann Blower in 1851 Census with her parents at Hinton in Pontesbury parish. So I have wasted time as a result of your 1841 posting in trying to find burial or death of (father) Thomas by 1841. Indeed I doubl;e-checked Pontesbury burials register this morning. Now you say that it was a 12 year old Mary who might have been the widow!

By the way, punctuation and capitals at start oif sentences do help one to read.

For wider benefit, 1851 reference HO107/1990/353/6 Hinton, parish of Pontesbury [ this is north side of the Rea brook ] :

Thomas Blower, 55, head, ag lab, born Yockleton [ eastern end of parish of Westbury and north of Hinton ]

Elina Blower, 60, wife, born at Llanymynech, Salop

John Blower, 17, son, born at Alberbury

Ann Blower, 18, daughter, born at Trap, Salop. [ Per Foxall's gazetteer at Archives, Trap cottage, Lea Cross, Pontesbury - i.e. close to Hinton ]

1861 reference RG9/1863/103/28 Hinton:

Thomas Blower, 62, head, ag lab, Westbury

Elenor Blower, 70, wife, Llanymynech

John Blower 37, son, unmarried, Alberbury

Emma Bellis, 24, visitor, house keeper, Pontesbury

1871 reference RG10/2763/85/24 Brook Cottage [ next to Short Hill ] Pontesbury:

Thomas Blower, 73, widower, farm lab, Westbury

John Blower, 46, son, farm lab, Alberbury

000000000

Pontesbury marriages on fiche:

4.2.1822 Thomas Blower of tyhis parish (bachelor) and Eleanor Jones of this parish (spinster) married by banns by C Peters, Rector of 2nd portion [ the rectory was always split three ways as the parish was so large ] TB signs well, EJ by mark.

Witnesses William Davies and William Davies (latter a regular); both sign.

000000000

I would suggest that TB is he baptised 28.2.1798 at Westbury, son of William Blower and Mary. Printed register gives no further detail.

William Blower and Mary Oakley married 20.4.1797 at Westbury [ not, as with all Westbury marriages at period, in IGI ] . The printed register annoyingly gives no further detail, such as marital status, parishes [ but presumably Westbury ] nor witnesses. According to the catalogue there are no fiches 1779 - 1799. So, permission needed by someone to see the original register.

It is essential to know whether MO was a spinster.

Oakley were around Westbury and Alberbury for centuries. There is a collection of notebooks at Archives which have seen many times, recording (I think) Mrs Barbara Morris' research in 1960s or so.

thanks martyn and sorry

did not know you were going to archives but very grateful for information.  so it seems that elinor was not a widow, it is a very faint mark on the 1841 census and sometimes these fam history sites do make mistakes.  sorry for no punctuations.

thanks again tho. 

Martyn

are some of the original transcripts, bishops transcripts in fact, held at hereford or are they all at shropshire archives, as hereford is easier for me to get to.

thanks

steph

As regards Westbury marriages it may just be that there is an error in catalogue. I may try again for a fiche; or ask for orginal. (By the way you cannot order stuff up on the day on Saturdays: only day before). Do not think of travelling to Hereford - yet. 

I assume that you cannot find TB's parents William and / or Mary Blower in 1851 C. Please confirm. (Am not subscribed to sites). This will narrow (my) search for their burials: and there are several possible deaths for each in Atcham District per FreeBMD up to end 1861 which might cost a lot to order. Cannot say when will next be in.

Am not even trying to my head around Davies: Blower and Oakley are enough!.

I have already mentioned that Cruckmeole is almost in Hanwood. (I.e. at western end on main road to Pontesbury A 488.

Tomlins is still a well-known name at Halfway House (Alberbury parish, Welshpool road).

ok, will not go to hereford yet, and will start searching the fam hist sites and let you know.

the name i was asking about is not tomlins but thomblings, i thought perhaps it was a mis spelling but found their marriage (john evans and elizabeth thomblings) 26 march 1850 registry office atcham. but that research will be for another day, was just wondering if the name was well known in pontesbury area.

will let you know as soon as i find anything out from the sites.

thanks again for everything.

steph

Hi Martyn

have been trawling through names, am not sure that the thomas and elina are the right ones as their ann has an e on the end, whereas mine does not.  have tracked down thomas and eleanor nee jones married in 1822, their first issue as i can see is john born 18 april 1824 alberbury, thomas 23 july 1826. ,Mary 1829 pontesbury, ann 1833 pontesbury and emma 1836 pontesbury. there may have been others that did not live.  have illiminated an eleanor blower born in madeley who ended up in staffordshire.  have found a thomas blower in 1841 on his own in llanymynech but he is born in 1801 (four years out) these returns are not always correct which makes research difficult.  so whether it was my thomas working away from home i dont know.  however, when i put in elina born in llanymynech in 1791 (as according to the return of 1851) into the 1841 census nothing comes up. i have left a mess on ancestry for someone researching thomas blower b 23 july 1826, parents eleanor and thomas, dont know what that will bring. would like your thoughts on this one as you know the areas better than i do, i understand that the spellings of elina and eleanor could be mistakes and the anne, but surely they did not make the same mistakes year after year.  i am going to pontesbury this week end to trawl round the graveyard to see if i can find eleanor blower and see what that brings.

molly

Another, shorter session at Archives (before using bus pass to Stretton).

Orig reg of Westbury:

William Blower of this parish and Mary Oakley of the same parish married by banns by Dd Williams, curate. WB and MO sign by mark. Only one witness - William Edwards, a regular who signs. (Whole feel of entry is a bit casual. Silence as to marital status. May have to rely on presumption that it would have been said if MO a widow - and in many cases marriage by licence was used for widower or widow).

Pontesbury burials from start 1841:

William Blower, The Lea, 27.7.1852, 77 years. [ He presumably the father, and baptised 7.7.1776 at Westbury, s of Benjamin and Elizabeth - this per IGI at home; their marriage not in IGI but possibly at Westbury. ] [ Note that I failed to find him in 1851 Census; you may have better luck. ]

Thomas Blower, Hinton, 20.5.1855, 16 months

Benjamin Blower, Little Halston, 19.12.1860, 64 years. [ Halston is between Lea Cross and centre of Pontesbury ] . [ He presumably bap 5.5.1796 at Westbury, s of Phillip and Mary. ]

Burial of Mary Blower [ i.e. wife of William not yet seen - but someone insisted in talking to me over shoulder while trying to read screen! An accurate age is needed in order to sort which MO bap at Alberbury 1774 or Pontesbury 1778. ]

The SFHS transcript of MIs for P should be tried. You can start by looking at top under online resources, but only lists of surnames per parish are given.

By the way, Shropshire Archives is in a modern building on rear of what once was Blower's [ furniture ] Repositary, as indeed stated over the archway. That has part of the original building above - but that is another storey!

I was composing my last posting - can take up to 40 minutes to do it properly for longer ones - when you posted yours, so had not seen it.

The final "e" on Anne is almost always omitted by census enumerators. That apart, for ordinary people at these periods there was nothing magic in spelling of names: if they were illiterate it would be up to the recording clerk.

As regards Census ages, remember that there was usually rounding down for aduilt ages in 1841, in multiples of 5.

Am now quite weary and wish to break off from this thread, and probably the Forum, for a while.

thanks a lot martyn, you, as always, have given me a lot to go on.  it does get a bit mind blowing with all the names fairly similar.

thanks again

"That has part of the original building above - but that is another storey!"

Nice one Martyn! Look forward to seeing you back here in the not too distant future, refreshed and (as ever) on top form.

Steve

Thanks, Steven.

Molly, if you have followed my advice to look at the list of Monumental Inscriptions via Online Resources icon on top bar you will see that there is only one for Blower recorded at Pontesbury - and that is inside the church; and thus probably "posh"; and, realistically, most unlikely to refer to the family in this thread.

martyn,

i did see the name blower in the archway to the archives but my pontesbury blowers are not obviously related to them, however, through marriage i am related to the blowers of shrewsbury (that s a complicated line).

like my ancestors you v got me banged to rights martyn, i m not "posh" however, i am so proud of what they all did and how v all evolved, the blowers could not read nor write and i am sure they would be delighted to see how far some of us have advanced (both my two went on to uni education and now have good jobs) not just the fact that they obviously had some intelligence but that they had the opporunity.

its my great grandparents eliza davies (daughter of ann blower and richard davies) who married sam evans that are buried in pontesbury church yard.

enjoy your break and look forward to seeing you on here again when re freshed and again thanks for all your help.

I have a few bits more to report, but cannot get down to posting at mo. So look in again.

One item for now: Benjamin Blower and Elizabeth Griffiths married 24.5.1772 at Westbury. But note another EG marrying Thomas Davies there 22.2.1773.

I suspect that this BB was buried in 1780, ages not then usually recorded.

thanks martyn, going to try and write up all my bits of research, as over the last couple of months have done bits and pieces on most sides of the families, so now to collate everything and then perhaps move on with it.

thanks again but will keep looking at threads.

Hi mollymandy  my name is John Davies my grandad was meant to be a member of the blacksmith Davies of Shrewsbury . His name was Alfred Pritchard Davies have you come across his name in your travels?. I am very new to this game so any help would be great thank you from a hopeful John

Hi John

sorry for not replying sooner but my own computer is broken so am relying on a friends lap top.  am away from home at the present so dont know if an alfred is related.  my davies worked from pontesford/pontesbury. richard taking over the business when his dad passed away.  richard was my great great grand dad, his daughter married sam evans a carpenter and lay preacher in pontesbury.  they lived at the engine house which is now a listed building and there is quite a bit on the net about the place.

will check my files when i get home and let you know, hope we are related as a member of the family has done a lot of research and it is now waiting to be collated.

regards

steph