Daniel NICKLAS / NICKLESS born 1807 Madeley

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Gordon48
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My ancestor was Daniel NICKLESS born 06 Oct 1807 in Madeley, Shropshire, England and died Mar 1878 in Mar 1878 in Shropshire, England. His wife was Ann WINDSOR.

According to research his father was Richard NICKLAS born 19 Apr 1751 in Parish of Wellington, Shropshire, England. His wife was Mary HEAD.

His father was Thomas NICKLESS born 03 Mar 1716 in Parish of Wellington, Shropshire, England. His wife was Mary HUGHES.

I understand that there are many branches of the NICKLESS family in the area and I wondered if someone compiled a genealogical record of the family. Additionally, the NICKLESS name seems to have a high concentration in the Midlands and I wondered if there was a specific reason for that fact.

Thanks for all your help in advance.

Gordon Nicholas (last spelling changed when my grandfather came to America)

penbex86
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Hi Gordon

I'm afraid that I can't give you much information other than to tell you that my gg grandfather was named George Stephan NICKLESS (b roughly 1845). His father was Peter Stephan and Mother, Susannah NICKLESS (b roughly 1809) - all of Broseley/Madeley birth. I have yet to go further back with Susannah but assume we connect somewhere down the line.

Nickless is most certainly a well established local name. I obtained a copy of Thomas Beard's Diary from Ironbridge Museum (early 1800s) which gives his day to day account of local events - VERY interesting read, haha. I definitely recall NICKLESS' being mentioned in that and on a number of census records through my 'history travels'.

Best wishes, Penny.

P.S. My Father's middle name is Gordon - we believe he was named after the family pub known as the General Gordon located at the former area known as the Werps.

Gordon48
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Dear Penny,

Thanks for your reply. I researched your ancestors but I could not make a connection with my family tree. There is a large grouping of Nickless relatives (plus different iterations of the spelling) in the Madeley, Shropshire area. As an American I do not fully understand the record keeping prior to the census records. With so many Nickless family members around I hoped that the genealogy was cataloged where I could access it. 

I imagine my next step will be to familiarize myself with geographical divisions of the area prior to 1850 to see where Madeley, Coalbrookdale, and Wellington all fit together. These are places of interest in trying to uncover my ancestors.

Thanks again for your help.

Sincerely,

Gordon

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Gordon

Baptisms/Christenings, Marriages and Burials have been recorded in Church Parish Registers in the UK since 1538 but only a limited number survive from that date.  There is a better survival rate from about 1600 onwards.  They continue to the present day.

In 1837 Civil Registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths was introduced in England and Wales.  Scotland started a few years later.

The two systems used (still use) different boundaries.  Have a look at England Jurisdictions 1851 on the Family Search web site.  This gives a good visual indication of the way these things work. Note the 'Search & Layers' tabs top left.  The default is the Search screen but by choosing the Layers screen you can have a view of different boundaries depending on what you want to know.  You can zoom right in to a single parish.  The site uses Google as the base map by default but you can change to an old black and white Ordnance Survey map (top right of map) which has some advantages where places have changed a lot over the last hundred years.

Note that many parishes were split up and new parishes formed in the late 1850's and 1860's - none of these will show on the England Jurisdictions 1851 web site.

Mike

Gordon48
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Dear Mike,

Thanks for you for your ideas. It is clear that I need more experience in researching English records but your suggestion provided an added value in verifying some of my existing tree information. I am still having some trouble identifying the proper names for the Church Parish Registers for Madeley, Coalbrookdale, and Wellington. Any hints are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Gordon

Scattysue
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Hi Gordon,

I have been on www.ancestry.co.uk and found my husband's pedigree. His paternal grandmother was Eliza Nickless (born in Madeley 1894 - 24/04/68). Her father   was  

Frederick Nickless born in Dawley Shropshire (1871 ). He married Susannah Clift (born in Dawley 1870). His parents were 

Richard Nickless (born in Little Dawley 1833- June 1895) and Ellen Cooper (born in Wem, Shropshire 1833 - Sept 1912). Richard's parents were

James Nickless (1807 - 1876) and Frances Webb( 1809). James's parents were

Richard Nickless (1776) and Mary Kirkham (1779). Richard's parents were

 Richard Nickless and Mary Head.

I have found Daniel Nickless  (6/10/1807 - 1878) which I think you may have done!! The only connection I can think is that our  Richard Nickless born in 1776 had a brother who had a son Daniel in the same year as James. If you look up the Genner family tree you'll find it all there.

 

Good luck!!

Sue

Scattysue
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On looking further back, on the Genner pedigree, Richard (married to Mary Head) Nickless's father is not Thomas but John (1740) married to Ann Head (1740) in 1759,  so there is some confusion here.

Sue Brothwood

Gordon48
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Dear Sue,

Thanks for the information. Prior to 1800 the family tree information is not as clear for the Nickless family. There are problably 4 or 5 othe trees on ancestry.com with conflicting information prior to 1800.

Personally I believe that Richard Nickless (1776) and Thomas Nickliss (July 1773) were brothers and their father and mother were Richard Nicklas (1751) and Mary Head.

However, the information is not beyond questioning. This is the next piece in the puzzle that I intend to research.

Gordon Nicholas

 

Scattysue
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Please let me know what you find. Where in America are you? Was your grandfather Daniel's son? I'm a newcomer to ancestry but am addicted! I feel quite emotional when I find things about my ancestors. Your ancestors are not mine, but are my daughters, so I am researching this for her.

Sue Brothwood

penbex86
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Interestingly, I have connections with both the Nickless and Genner family trees of Shropshire - my Mother is a Gennoe and my father a Stephan (Nickless being his GG Grandmothers maiden name).

Both are very interesting branches Gordon but there are a lot of errors out there (particulalry for the Gennoe tree - as a couple of people have gone back to the 1400s and unfortunately others have just copied this on to their trees as gospel, and often in the wrong place!). So tread carefully when researching.

It is likely that we are connected somewhere along the line given the two surname links but I have yet to stumble across your Richard - that said, I havent done a lot of research on the Nickless' yet.

You may find http://www.broseley.org.uk useful. A chap called Steve Dewhirst runs the site - very helpful chap but the search facility is also very good. I have found a lot of newspaper articles about my family on there!

 

Gordon48
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Dear Penny and Sue,

Thank you for the help. I intend to pursue the research and document my findings. I also understand there are some issues with family trees on some web sites so I will preceed with caution. I have made some progress but I am waiting until I am more confident about the results.

Gordon

Gordon48
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Dear Penny,

Are you related to Rebecca Nickless (1846-1910) born in Shropshire and died in Rotherham and married to James Gennoe (1855-1909)?

Gordon

penbex86
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Hi Gordon

Very likely through some convuluted means! Its hard to keep track of them all and I'm abit behind my research (University and wedding planning took over).

 

Are you on Ancestry? A relative whom I have come across, who too is related through the Nickless/Gennoe connection has a very larg tree compiled on Ancestry. Im sure if you dropped her a message, she may be able to help you. Her names is Angela Genner.

I've just checked and she has James & Rebecca on her tree - even a photo of James grave. So she must have some info that she can share!

Let me know if this doesn't work:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/9545298/family

penbex86
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That link doesnt appear to work.

If you search for James Gennoe born 1855 on Ancestry.co.uk then using the category tab on the left hand side, click "family trees". Its listed about 5th/6th down and is called Genner Family Tree.

Gordon48
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Dear Penny,

I looked at the Genner Family Tree and found Susannah Nickless, Birth 1816 in Madeley, Shropshire, England who married Peter Stephan Birth 1796 in Potteries, Staffordshire, England. I did some preliminary investigation using the Genner Family Tree and other sources and I believe that Susannah's mother and father were Richard Nicklas (different spellings on last name based on various documentation) Birth 03 Nov 1776 in Wellington, Shropshire, England and Mary Kirkham (different spellings on last name based on various documentation) Birth 1779 in Claverley, Shropshire, England. Again based upon the limited research I have done to date I think that Richard Nicklas is brother to my ancestor Thomas Nickliss.

The records of this era are not as clear cut as those of the census so I am not 100% sure of the connection. I would like to better research the period from 1700 to 1800 to establish more correct documentation.

Good luck on your studies and wedding.

Gordon

peter
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Hi Gordon,

I know your post is old but if you are still trying to search the NICKLESS connection.  I have some additional information for you

Peter

Gordon48
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Dear Peter,

I would like to have any information you have on Daniel Nickless and the NIckless family in the Madeley and Coal Brooke Dale area. Thanks.

Gordon

 

peter
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Hi Gordon

I sent you a very detailed response but it seemed to get timed out and is lost.  I will do it again later in the week and let you have it then

Regards

Peter

Gordon48
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Peter,

Thanks so much.

Gordon

peter
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Hi Gordon,

Above my family tree as much as it relates to yours.  Daniel is a recurring name in the Nickless family, there are a quite a few. I think perhaps Mary Head and Richard were too old to have Daniel in 1807, there is a Daniel born to Richard Nickless’ brother in 1807, but I have not researched Richard’s siblings yet.  I suspect that your father was 3 times removed cousin to James Nickless b 1876 who was my Grandfather, and that he was a direct cousin to James Nickless b 1807.  Researching the family tree is a bit complicated because of the bastardisation of the surname. There are many variations because when births were registered in Parish and other registers it was written down wrong.  The variations are Nichols, Niclas Nicholas, Nicklas, Nicholls, and of course sometimes it was just laziness in getting the name right.  My father was registered as Nichalos and it took me years to find the birth, my Grandfather was born Nickless, Married Nickless, was on census as Nicholls and on the electorial role as Nickless.  I am still unable to find his death due to not knowing exactly when he died in the 1950s and not knowing the name his death was registered under. My surname is Nichols, but I have cousins that are called Nickless, Nicholls and Nicholas.  So it is all very confusing and probably made doubly so for you to research because of you being in the States and unable to go to archives relevant to the family.

Another further complication is the fact that a lot of the Nickless family moved to Parkgate, Rotherham (Yorkshire) in the late 1880s because due to being coal miners, there was a need to find work when coal seams in Shropshire started to get depleted.  Many worked at Kilnhurst collery in Rawmarsh very near Rotherham and one of the largest deep coal mines in the country at the time. Many lived on Victoria Road, Parkgate.  During WW1 several members of the family were KIA in the Yorks and Lancs regiment and 1 in the RMC. Two are commemorated at Ypres, one on the Menin gate and one at Tynncot, Passendale cemetery both under different surnames.

 

Have you got any birth certificates, particularly for you father as knowing who his father was and some dates would help to link the families together, if you have and let me know I can at least add it to my information and look next time I am doing some research.

Hope this is at least some help

Regards Peter

peter
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MARY HUGHES B1718?   Married THOMAS NICKLESS B1716 .                                                  

ANN B1740 SHROP  MARRIED 1759   JOHN NICKLESS 1740 SHROP.

MARY HEAD B1760 SHROP  married     RICHARD NCKLESS B1761 MADELEY.

MARY KIRKHAM B1779 CLAVELEY    MARRIED 1803 RICHARD NICKLESS B 1776 .                          WESTBURY.

FRANCIS WEBB B1809 DAWLEY MAGNA JAMES NICKLESS B 1807. Died Coalbrookdale 1876

Madeley.

 

 SARAH DEAN B1851DAWLEY    BENJAMIN NICKLESS B 1848.

MARY ANN HUTCHINSON B1879  MARRIED 1899  JAMES NICKLESS B1876.

This the family tree that head the last post but the site is rejecting it as it thinks it is spam, I have reconfigured it to try and get it past the spam filter. Hope it makes sense in this format

Gordon48
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Peter,

I believe you lineage is as follows:

James Nickless was born March 1876 in Dawley, Shropshire, England.

James Nickless was the son of Benjamin Nickless and Sarah Dean. Benjamin Nickless was born 1848 in Dawley, Shropshire, England and died 3 October 1918 in England.  Sarah Dean was born in 1851 in Dawley, Shropshire, England and died 2 December 1918 in England.

Benjamin Nickless was the son of James Nickless and Frances Webb.  James Nickless was born 1807 in Coalbrook, Shropshire, England and died July 1876 in Madeley, Shropshire, England.  Frances Webb was born in 1809 in Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England and died April 1881 in Shropshire, England.

James Nickless was the son of Richard Nicklas and Mary Kirkham. Richard Nicklas was born or baptized 3 November 1776 in Wellington, Shropshire, England and died July 1850 in Madeley, Shropshire, England. Mary Kirkham was born or baptized 1779 in Claverley, Shropshire, England and died at an unknown date.

Richard Nicklas was the son of Richard Nicklas and Mary Head. The elder Richard Nicklas was born or baptized 19 April 1751 in Wellington, Shropshire, England and died at an unknown date. Mary Head was born or baptized in 1760 in Shropshire, England and died at an unknown date. The elder Richard Nicklas and Mary Head are our common ancestors.

I do not have ANN B1740 SHROP  MARRIED 1759   JOHN NICKLESS 1740 SHROP. so I will need investigate that entry. Instead I go directly to:

The elder Richard Nicklas was the son of Thomas Nickless and Mary Hughes. Thomas Nickless was born or baptized 3 March 1716 in the Parish of Wellington, Shropshire, England and died at an unknown date.  Mary Hughes was born or baptized in 1719 and died at an unknown date.

Thomas Nickless was the son of Matthew Nicholas and Sara Baggnett. Matthew Nicholas was born in 1688 in the Parish of Wellington, Shropshire, England and died at an unknown date. Sara Baggnett was born and died at an unknown date.

I have not researched this portion of the family tree in years so there may be some discrepancies. It looks like we agree about the main lineage. Thanks.

Gordon