Charles Oscar ROBBINS 1847 , not born in Shifnall

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Martyn Freeth
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Bit more. No relevant Joseph Eardley or variants in SFHS Burials Index to 1837; and Lilleshall and Shifnal are covered. No Joseph Eardley or Herdley (born 1805-1825) anywhere in 1881 Census via Family Search; and this tends to pick up simple variants. Only poss relevant death of Joseph Eardley in FreeBMD July 1837 - Dec 1881 is one in March quarter 1851 in Shifnal District; but, what with nothing in SBI, I would surmise that this was the JE who was the father at the 1821 baptism. I MIGHT try a burials search in Shifnal parish next week, but all cemeteries in District would be too many to tackle, even if deposited.

By the way, I ignore FreeBMD entries for the Potteries area, as that is where the name originated.

Dave E
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Hi Martyn

going through old papers in my search for Eardleys there is this one Joseph Eardley born Donninton Wood

1835 father Thomas   Mother Elizabeth HARLEY

Martyn Freeth
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Thank you. We already have a Joseph Eardley bap in 1821 at "Donnington Wood", son of Joseph and Elizabeth; and, per "parent" and other search in IGI would place him as uncle of the one whom you report. The occurrence of a Harley mother is intriguing.

The reason for the commas is that I now see, from Archives' list of register holdings that the use by the IGI of "DW" is anachronistic / too early and that in 1821 and 1835 the area was covered by St George's registers. And such was still officially a part of Shifnal parish.

All the present thrust, which may turn out to be quite wrong, stems from trying to find the bap and two marriages of a Joseph Harley who was at Pensnett, Kingswinford in 1851, "aged 30", "born in Shifnal".

I ought to look out the full 1821 entry for Rita later next week.

It is, by the way, a bit sad to me to think of this family emigrating to the Allegheny coalfields in Pennsylvania, no doubt in search of better fortune and a freer life, only no doubt to have found equally oppresive conditions.

RitaB
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Thanks Martyn,  As we say here "You're a Luv"

I will let you know as soon as I get the BC for  Joanna Pagett  and MC for Mary Ann Barker. GRO originally said they couldn't find the birth they changed their minds when I gave them all my search refs, now I know they aren't infallible.

As you say, intriguing about the mother's name Elizabeth Harley.

The reunion is taking place this weekend at a park in Lanse PA,hopefully some concrete info may be forthcoming regarding Charles Oscar Robbins.

Rita

RitaB
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Martyn,

Joanne Pagett was born 9 Oct 1843 in Pensett, Father Joseph Pagett miner and Sarah formerly LANGFORD. The only marriage I can find is 23 Aug 1841 at St Thomas, Dudley between Joseph Pagett and Sarah Tence. I think you mentioned this young lady before. A Joseph died in 1848 which would fit in with 1851 census

I am at a loss where to search next. The family reunion didn't add anything only all the family's thanks  to us

Rita

Martyn Freeth
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Thanks Rita. At least you have Sarah, formerly Langford as mother of both a Pagett and a Harley. But I too cannot see where that Sarah married (if at all) either "husband". Perhaps she was already a widow when she married JP. But pottering in FreeBMD does not readily give a lead. Perhaps marriage in Scotland. But twice? And why? And could they afford the journey, in time lost, and cash? Note that civil registration in Scotland began in 1855. You could try "Scotland's People" for earlier periods.

I suggest that we both copy and paste all these postings into a Word doc for easier rumination.

By the way, what ages were Joseph Harley, senior and Sarah at death in USA?

RitaB
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Martyn,

There wasn't any marriages in "Scotlands people" for a Pagett. Joseph Harley made his will 18 Dec 1886 and it was amended 30 Jan 1890 as one of the executors had died. In it he left his estate to his wife Sarah and to Joseph his son the whole interest in the coal which he leased from John Paul and wife, and also his whole interest the pit, pit wagons, tools and appliances etc. No death date for either Joseph or Sarah but cannot find the in later US Censuses.

Martyn Freeth
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Rita, from Archives today:

St George's baps

9.10.1821 Joseph son of Joseph and Elizabeth Eardley, Payns Lane, blacksmith [ Payns / Pains Lane was the old name for part of St George's, then in parish of Shifnal; "blacksmith" indicates membership of the family studied a year or two ago and to which David Eardley, snr, of Chester belongs ]

St George's burials

28.3.1851 Joseph Eardley, Pains Lane, 15 years [ this will be he bap 1835 son of Thomas and Elizabeth ]

So, at present I have seen no burial in SBI nor death in FreeBMD 1837-1920 (ignoring those in north Staffs and nearby Congleton) of a Joseph Eardley to equate with he bap in 1821. But, if not same as Joseph Harley, he could have moved out of England and Wales. Do please check FreeBMD yourself.

I looked also at JH in 1861 Census at Park Street, Kingswinford. No change in approx age and p.o.b for him. But Sarah is now 44, which fits nicely with Sarah Langford, bap 29.11.1817 at Kwfd [ her p.o.b in 1851 and 1861 ] daughter of job and Elizabeth. More children seen. Elizabeth, of course, but no Job [ perhaps too doleful a name! My direct ancestor Job Freeth (1696-1775) had three sons named Job, all surviving ] .

I am still troubled that an alternative bap for JH is lurking somewhere not covered by IGI. You can look at total register holdings at Shr Archives, both parish and separately n/c, by going into www.shropshire.gov.uk the Culture and Leisure, then Archives, then What we hold, pdf docs that can be downloaded. But these do not give IGI coverage. One can try hit or miss with a common surname and forename for two years either side of 1821 and note which places are in or are missing.

RitaB
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Martyn,this is getting weird. George son of JH and M A Barker married Mary Ann Langford in 1865. She was the d of Job Langford and Sarah Brooks baptised Kingswinford And St. Marys Chapelry 25 Dec 1842. I wonder if Job and Sarah are related

RitaB
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Good morning Martyn, I looked in the Archives as you suggested but got hopelessly lost, so gave it up.

I received Mary Ann Barker and Joseph Herdley's MC today. They were both underage when they married and both put their mark and were living in Lye.the witnesses were William Barker and Eliza Hatherdale (I think) Her father was a Miner called George and,

wait for it,

Joseph's father was Joseph and he was a Blacksmith. That tallies with your Joseph Eardley 

Regards

Rita

PS thanks for the info on your previous post

Martyn Freeth
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The case seems to be firming up. Perhaps some other checks needed. Will come back in day or two. Also I may try to contact David Eardley. He may not be using this new forum.

As regards Mary Ann Langford she could have been first cousin to Sarah. Mary needs finding with her parents in 1861 Census so as to establish the age of her father Job.

RitaB
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Martyn,

Just found this marriage at www.familysearch.org/ Joseph EARLY and Elizabeth Stant 13 Sep 1808 at St Martins, checked with IGI and it was a "real" entry.

The other Eardley I found was George baptized 31 Jan 1819 father Joseph mother Rebecca. He was a Blacksmith living in Kingswinford, looks like he bettered Joseph he had 3 wives. Thought I'd run it by you for your expert opinion.

Thanks

Rita

Martyn Freeth
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Rita, I will check out the 1808 marriage for you. Looks good at mo, even if distant. That "Rebecca" looks like an error in the register of St George's at mo. Make a "parent" search for Joseph Eardley and Elizabeth, all periods, Salop and you will see that George fills a gap. Joseph bap 21.3.1784 at Shifnal as Early, s of Wm and Eliz. Need to go back to scridbbles to check what was found for that couple.

Martyn Freeth
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Rita, from Archives:

St George's baps (two on same day):

31.1.1819 George s of Joseph and Rebecca Eardley, Paynes Lane, blacksmith

next entry

31.1.1819 Rebecca d of William and Charlotte Biddulph, Lodge Wood, collier

I think that we can see how an erroneous mother Rebecca crept in.

St Martin's marriages (not helped by this and nearby entries all having been overscored, line by line, probably in pencil; query to mark off what had been transcribed for the Bishop)

13.9.1808 Joseph Eardly [ might be Eardley ] and Elizabeth Stant [ ? the printed volume has Stant ] married by banns [ no parishes or marital status quoted ] ; both parties sign by mark; witnesses illegible through that defacement.

Next, looked at 1841 Census [ which cannot do at home ] for all Josephs Ear(d)l(e)y, Herdley [ none ] and Harley, any age anywhere.

A 15 year old Joseph Harley in Duke Street, Wolverhampton (HO107/999/9) with William Harley aged 20, latter a collier, JH an apprentice collier, neither born in county.

[ Note that Joseph "Herdley" was by then married; no female in this household  ] .

No other approp Joseph Harley in right areas or of right sort of age.

 

But, at Common Hill, Kingswinford (HO107/996/7; taken as at night of 6.6.1841)

Joseph Eardley, 15, miner, yes [ this rounded-down age fits with bap in Oct 1821 ]

Mary Eardley, 15, yes

Eliza Eardley 4 months, yes

 

Compare this with 1851 at Commonside, Kingswinford (HO107/2036/739/40)

Joseph Harley, 30, miner, Shifnal

[ Sarah, of course, second wife ]

Eliza Harley, daughter, 10, scholar, kingswinford

[ others as already known ]

 

Looking now for reg of birth of this Eliza as Harley or Eardley, no joy at first (and Elizabeth Eardley born Sep q 1840 in Stourbridge District will be the daughter of George, and bap at Brierley Hill)

However a blanket surname search gives:

female Eardley March q 1841 Stourbridge District.

 

What do you now think, on the total evidence to date?

 

RitaB
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Martyn,

Was just answering your previous post. I see what you meant about George fitting in. I found John also living in Staffs. In 891 he was recorded as Harley. What struck me as odd is that John and George say they were born in Pains Lane but Joseph says Shifnal.

Everything you have just found seems to jell together. The family in America have no records from England all of their records had been copied from other trees from Ancestry with no checks. 

Thank you so much for your time and trouble

Rita

 

  

 

RitaB
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Martyn,

Was just answering your previous post. I see what you meant about George fitting in. I found John also living in Staffs. In 891 he was recorded as Harley. What struck me as odd is that John and George say they were born in Pains Lane but Joseph says Shifnal.

Everything you have just found seems to jell together. The family in America have no records from England all of their records had been copied from other trees from Ancestry with no checks. 

Thank you so much for your time and trouble

Rita

 

  

 

Martyn Freeth
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That's good, Rita. By the way, Pains / Paynes / Payns Lane was in the historic parish of Shifnal at the time of those births. Generally, as an area became more populous new ecclestiastical parishes would be carved out, but all remained in the original civil parish, which had admin responsibilities.

RitaB
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Martyn,

I might as will be hung for a sheep as a lamb, I have ordered the female BC

Martyn Freeth
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Meanwhile, a foray into Langfords? Too early yet to speculate on ultimate origin of this partic family - a widespread surname in many counties, almost certainly of distinct origins. Shropshire is only one possibility.

(At best she is merely a wife of a Langford cousin, but Sarah Brooks could be difficult to identify. Am uncertain that have own Brooks ancestry in late 18th c in the Oldswinford / Kingswinford area yet right).

RitaB
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Good morning Martyn, Did a search in IGI, for parents  Job and Elizabeth

Found 10 children, all christened in Kingswinford amongst them were Sarah 29 Jun 1817 and Job 17 Dec 1809. 

Job Langford/Lankford and Elizabeth Rowbotham were married 27 Aug 1 792 at Kingswinford

Job was christened 16 Feb 1772 his parents were Richard Lankford and Ann

Elizabeth was also christened at Kingswinford 13 Dec 1772 parents Revel? and Sar? I assume Sarah

Rita

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

Martyn Freeth
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Noted Rita. As we have for some time strayed out Salop it might be best to continue off-board, partic as I may have bits of detail that will bore readers even more. Go into "Aboout Us" icon, then Committee, then mail the webmaster with your e-adress and ask him to forward to me (but he may be away at mo - am awaiting a reply on something else).

I can now see that the earliest register of Kingswinford (1603-1704) is not covered by IGI. The first Langford entry (per printed and indexed vol) is bap 23.11.1673 Jobe s of John Lankford, nailer and Jane h w. A son Richard bap 21.4.1683. The bap and marriage of that John are hard to see in Staffs, Worcs or Salop (the one bap 1642 at Munslow seemingly married there in 1682). There are no doubt parishes or chapelries not yet covered, Oldbury as part of Hales Owen (listed usually under Worcs but then an island of Salop), for example.

I see in IGI a succession of Revels Rowbotham in Kingswinford; and the first of the surname / variants that you see is the first to occur with bap 12.10.1706 of Mary d of Revell and Mary Rawbotham. Revel(l) as a surname occurs in Staffs and Salop; but have long associated it with Derbyshire.

More anon as to Staffs Marriage and Burials Indices - the latter quotes any probates.

RitaB
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Thanks Martyn

I have sent the webmaster my Email

Ritau

Martyn Freeth
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To wrap up this thread, Rita has obtained the birth certificate for the then unnamed Eardley in March quarter 1841 in Stourbridge District. Her parents were as postulated; so that this child, later named Eliza, was with Joseph and Mary Anne Eardley at 1841 Census and (at virtually same address and 10 years older and as stated daughter) with Joseph Harley and his second wife in 1851. We consider the case as good as proved that Joseph Eardley, bap 1821 at St George's (Shifnal), was same as Joseph Herdley, married to Mary Anne Barker (whose maiden name is givenj on that certificate), and as, from at least 1849, Joseph Harley, who emigrated to USA in 1867.

RitaB
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Thanks you for all your help Martyn, I shall let my cousins in PA know the outcome of our "journey"

Rita

Martyn Freeth
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My last posting referred merely to Joseph's first marriage. If you read the whole thread - admittedly tedious - you will see that his second wife was Sarah, nee Langford. As I understand it she emigrated with him. Rita has sent me a copy document that refers to the death in or near Allegheny of Joseph Harley on 20.6.1911. This of course might refer to his son.

I will mail Rita to advise of your posting; but it says nothing about who you are or where you live; and there is no e-address. She, by the way, has no personal interest: her work was for kinsfolk on another side.

RitaB
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Martyn told me of your contact. You haven't given much info with regard to "your Harley" family to let my contact know of your interest

Regards

Another Medevil

Martyn Freeth
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Is "me1" (and why, oh why cannot a proper name be used?) sure that he or she is looking at the same Harleys? The household that moved to Pennsylvania was headed by Joseph who was born an Eardley. In the course of the reasearch for this thread many other, undoubtedly real Harleys were seen in or around Kinsgwinford.