BEYER Family in Ellesmere Shropshire, Dudleston farm

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Alane Beyer
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Hi Members,

I am looking or my BEYER family in Ellesmere, Shropshire, Dudleston St Mary Parish. I know Louisa Harriet BEYER owned a good sized farm in this area. ( 17 acres). Louisa my great great grandmother moved here after her husband Gottlieb F BEYER died in 1861. They had 8 children !

So she would have owned this farm from about 1861-1910 ???  I have little luck trying to find out if this farm and house is still standing. I would think there was not many people living here back then. Her neighbours in 1901 census may have been William BELLINGTON, Joseph Henry LEE,  .. hard to read the others.

Louisa had the following family and servants living with her in 1901-  Louisa Fanny age 45 ( daughter), Elsie (granddaughter), William Henry POWELL (servant), Thomas EVANS (servant).

I am wondering if anyone can tell me if the farm and house is still there ??  I am emailing from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.  Are you able to help ??

Best Regards Alane

 

Martyn Freeth
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Hello. A few prelim points.

Gottfried F Beyer died in March (i.e. first) quarter 1860, not in 1861, in West Derby Registration District (now and perhaps then part of the City of Liverpool.

17 acres would count as a small-holding.

In 1872 the government commissioned a survey and report on all holdings of land in England and Wales of one acre and more - colloquially known as the New Domesday, published in 1873. No Beyer, Bayer or variant appears for Shropshire. So, either she moved in after Oct 1872 or did not own the holding then. Or indeed did not own it at all.

Louisa H Beyer was at Pentrecoed, Ellesmere at 1881 Census (with three unmarried children in their twenties), a widow and farmer of 17 acres. You can see this via Family Search for free. Census ref is RG11/2665/19/12.

I cannot see her listed in Cassey's Directory of Shropshire 1871 under Dudleston or (the very large parish of) Ellesmere - but small-holders were generally ignored in listings.

Is Pentrecoed the place to which you refer?

cockberryhall
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Hello

Can you go on Google maps for England.....you could bring up the area and take it from maps to satellite so you can see if its still there....also the is a site called Old Maps which you can look at maps from as early as 1825 in some areas.....think I have come across the name when I've been doing address search in that area......will have a look when I can..Debi

Alane Beyer
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Last seen: 6 years 26 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 16-02-2012

Hi There,

Thanks for your response. And sorry I did know that Gottlieb Ferdinand Beyer did pass in 1860, I just meant that Louisa had moved to Ellesmere after his death, so guessed at the year 1861.

Yes Pentrecoed  is the area, there seems to be so many names attached to abodes that it is confusing.

It could be she did not own the land ... but I find that a little odd as they were fairly well off. Gottlieb was a Insurance merchant at Rumford place in Liverpool. And his Son Ernst Beyer was a cotton merchant.

Was there a lot of Homes in 1860 in the areas I described ? Would it be easy to find out if the building still remains as I would like to some see it when we come to England next year.

Best Regards Alane

Alane Beyer
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Last seen: 6 years 26 weeks ago
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Hi Debi !

Thanks so much for answering my request. So many nice people in Jolly Old England !  I will try the old maps that might work. I tried using the current views but its just so hard to tell where I am exactly.

I was even looking at this property thinking it could be close by ? http://www.findaproperty.com/for-sale/property-10978836

I just didn't think the area was that populated with farms back in the 1860's, so felt it would be easier to find ?

Let me know what you find out with your address search and the Beyer name. Best Regards Alane.

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Alane

The link below will allow you to see a map published in 1892 at a scale of 6 inches to 1 mile with Pentre-coed in the centre.

England - Shropshire: 006/SW', Ordnance Survey 1:10,560 - Epoch 1 (1892). URL:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapsheet.aspx?compid=55135&sheetid=7259...

Just below the map on the right is a link to show a modern map. When you click on this the modern map opens below the old one but it is not visible until you scroll down.

The old map can be moved by clicking the point you want in the centre of the screen. The modern map can be dragged around.

This link will show the same area in Google maps.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Pentre-coed,+Ellesmere+Rural&hl=en&sll=5...

As far as I can see you don't have the name of an individual farm and unfortunately the census doesn't seem to give this either.  One possible way to resolve this when you are in Shropshire is to go to Shropshire Archives in Shrewsbury and look at the Tithe Maps and Apportionments for the area and look how many farms are 17 acres.  You can buy (fairly cheaply) a copy of the Tithe Map known as a Field Name Map. Each field is numbered and named and the Apportionment will tell you who owned each field and who the occupier was, if different. In your case you are probably going to have to rely on the size of the farm to work out which one you want. Fortunately the Apportionment shows the total acreage for each farm.

Hopefully the following link will bring up the Field Name map for Ellesmere parish. Pentre-coed is slightly to the right of the centre of the map, between Dudleston and Dudleston Heath. Whilst it is not easy to read on screen it will give you an idea of what is available.

http://www.search.secretshropshire.org.uk/engine/resource/default.asp?tx...

Mike

Martyn Freeth
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I can now see that the 1881 Census was wrong (at least as abstracted via Family Search) in placing Pentrecoed in Ellesmere parish. Didleston is correct; and looking again at Cassey's 1871 Directory there are several farmers and a carpenter listed as of Pentre coed. The latter, Henry Edwards was in 1881 Census next to Louisa Beyer. On her other side was an uninhabited brickyard.

That last piece of information might well assist in identifying Louisa's home on old maps.

I have not yet discovered her maiden name, but she was born at Christleton (just outside Chester).

Given that you say that her husband was part of the mercantile community in Liverpool it is possible that she settled where she did via the auspices, and possibly as tenant of George Henry Horsfall (who then owned Kilhendre Hall, Dudleston and its 600 acre estate) or the latter's father-in-law Isaac Scott Hodson at Sodylt Hall (quite close to Pentrecoed; but a much smaller acreage). Both gentlemen were also originally merchants in Liverpool.

Alane Beyer
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Wow you hit the nail on the head with this Martyn !

I found an old document stating that in 1849 that the Queen was pleased to grant Thomas Ernest Pickering of Christleton in the county of Palatine of Chester her royal licence and authoriity to take the last name of Hodson, after the Deceased Thomas Hodson in lieu of the name Pickering. This was in the will of Thomas Hodson that if Thomas E Pickering took his last name ( its his Uncle) that he would inherit the Hodson farm. !  So she would have been on the Hodson Farm. !

Pickering is Louisa Harriett Beyer's maiden name ! Wow this is begining to make some sense thanks to you. I believe the Pickerings were Soap Manufacturers. So now this Thomas Pickering is calling himself a Hodson, his Maternal Uncles last name the artcle states. So just to clarify Louisa's Mum was Arabella Pickering ( Hodson was her maiden name).

I just cannot wait to come to England such wonderful history !  Now I will check out these maps and see if I can find this Brickyard. Maybe do some more digging on the Hodson, and Pickering.

Thanks so much you made my day !  Best Regards Alane.

 

Martyn Freeth
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Sorry, but I fear that I made a typing mistake. The owner of Sodylt Hall was Isaac Scott HODGSON. So there may not be a blood connection through HODSON.

I have never investigated this Isaac in any detail, but have four (battered) volumes of pedigrees collated in mid 19th century by Joseph Hunter, of Sheffield and called (in Latin) Familiae Minorum Gentium ( = Families of (the) Lesser Gentry).

Volume one has a collection of tables (pages 358-368), all by way of descendants of the Henry family of Broad Oak, near Whitchurch, Salop (but in Flints). Isaac's mother, Elizabeth, nee Lightbody (page 366) is among them. This work, published by the Harleian Society, 1894 onwards, is probably now accessible online. I have all four volumes also on a commercial cd.

So, I rather doubt that Louisa's home in Shropshire was the farm referred to in the Will that you mention. ISH owned a country mansion not merely a farm.

Martyn Freeth
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Bit more. Isaac Scott HODGSON died aged 73 in December (i.e. fourth) quarter 1881 in Ellesmere Registration District (in which Sodylt lay).

You can find him in 1881 Census at Sodylt, aged 73. As he was born in Jamaica one might conclude that his father was involved in sugar or the slave trade (of which Liverpool was very much a centre - it is said that an actor who was heckled by an audience there turned on them to say that all bricks in the city were cemented by the blood of negro slaves). Much Liverpool / slave trade money came into Shropshire, such as in the purchase of country estates.

deePeye
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Hello Alane,

Can't claim any detailed local knowledge or connections, but if not already done, the "Google Earth" search for "Pentre-coed, SY12,UK" puts a placemark in a field just behind Pentrecoed Farm.  If you zoom in a little, then move the map centre to the lane in front of the house, then drag the "Street View" symbol to that point, it should then provide you with an actual photographic image (taken in the last year or two) of the property from the lane.  Going in and out of the aerial view, you can move (drag) the map about, to see a neighbouring farm to the west, as well as others in the wider area.  This is merely to give you a 'feel' for the area prior to any visit, but does not necessarily point you to the actual home occupied by your family of Beyer.   It is of course worth bearing in mind the population was higher in the late 19th C as farming was considerably more labour intensive and workers living in outbuildings or scattered cottages (not all of which will have survived to the present day).  But "Street View" along the various lanes, does show us a good selection of surviving examples of houses, barns and cottages from the era.  You might also wish to visit the Parish Church (St Mary the Virgin) at nearby Duddleston.  Some pictures can be seen (of the Church and area) at:  http://www.yourlocalweb.co.uk/shropshire/dudleston/pictures/

As a final resort, should your search (following Martyn and others' expert advice) fail to identify the likely location of the property with the 17 acres, you might try a (polite) letter explaining the reason for your visit to the area and hopes to identify your ancestors' home, written to a 3rd generation farmer at Pentrecoed and local Councillor (Cllr Mrs Kay Egerton).  You will find some details of her on the following website of Ellesmere Rural Parish Council: http://www.ellesmererpc.org.uk/about.php

Finally, among the many places of interest it is possible to visit, you might wish to consider travelling about 9 miles to the west over the Welsh border (apologies to Salopian friends and members) via St Martins and Chirk to "Froncysyllte" (pronounced Vron-kus-ul-tay).  There is a quite remarkable (120 foot high) aqueduct carrying the Llangollen Canal over the River Dee at Pontcysyllte.   "Google" for details of the Llangollen Canal and regular boat cruises which take you to the most interesting and scenic town of Llangollen, where there is also a steam-hauled historic railway along the Dee Valley westwards to a hamlet at Carrog.  Details from: http://www.llangollen.org.uk/  and http://www.horsedrawnboats.co.uk/aqueduct-trips.aspx

Success with your search.
David

Alane Beyer
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Last seen: 6 years 26 weeks ago
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Thanks Michael,

This helps alot. Now I know I was in the right area searching for before I found this great group !

The last link you gave is great I never saw this map before, just need to get out the magnify glasses. And buy a copy of the Tithe Map . I now know Louisa lived on some land next too or on the Hodson Property this would her brother I believe. ( he took the name Hodson, maiden name of her mother Arabella). In order to inherit the property from Thomas Hodson her uncle.

Thanks so much for all your help I will keep you posted on what I find.

Regards Alane.

 

Martyn Freeth
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I fear that Alane has not read my two latest postings.

Louisa Beyer did NOT live on or near HODSON land at Pentrecoed: the neighbour, possibly also landlord, was a HODGSON.

To check that we are talking about quite distinct surnames I have searched for and noted the probate of the Will of Thomas HODSON, soap manufacturer of Chester. This may well be the one that gave rise to the change of name from Pickering to Hodson; but of course it might be that of Louisa's father after he had changed his name. It was proved 28 Feb 1830 in the (central) Prerogative Court of Canterbury (the PCC). You can buy and download this online from National Archives. www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline . Flat fee of £3-50 sterling.

For other and further research note that Wills proved (locally) at Chester are indexed and available to buy online.

As regards that change of name (seemingly by Royal Licence, from Alane's info) it speaks for substantial assets to justify the palaver - certainly more than a 17 acre smallholding. Personally I do not believe that the Dudleston land was ever a Hodson (as opposed to possibly Hodgson) property before Louisa went there.

Alane seems to be setting out in UK research. The icon FAQ at top of the page might help.

Martyn Freeth
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Bits more. Looking for a more substantial property in Cheshire or Salop, owned at the 1873 "New Domesday" Return by a Pickering or Hodson, I see that an Ernest Hodson, Chester was listed with 61 acres in Cheshire at a gross estimated annual rental value of £200. That's more like it!

Without detailing other searches I surmise that this may have been the John Ernest Hodson who died in Dec quarter 1864 in Great Boughton Reg District. That included Christleton.

The Return was compiled from local rating lists, and in the Return one often finds a deceased owner listed as if still living. I belived that this John E may be found in 1861 Census, born about 1825. I cannot check from home.

The a2a (Access to Archives) website (limiting one's search to the North West region) produces a few refs to Thomas Hodson, soap boiler / tallow chandler, of Chester. I leave Alane to explore further, such as for Pickering.

For the latter it might be pleasant to link up with the various EXUPERIUS (phew!) Pickerings in the Wrexham, Denbs area. One of them held land in Denbs in 1873.

Alane Beyer
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Good Morning Martyn,

Thanks for your reply and on going help. I found many of the same articles you have come across in regards to Hodson and Hodgeson. I think the Hodson name is on her mothers side not the fathers. I feel it was her brother ( John Ernst Pickering) that changed his name to Hodson maybe no heirs ?

I was only guessing that it was land or a farm that John Ernest her brother. ( think I used Thomas before sorry this is Louisa's father).

The article I am viewing is not:  28 Feb 1830 in the (central) Prerogative Court of Canterbury (the PCC) as you had mentioned but rather from Whitehall October 16th 1849. Is there a way to attached these clippings to the email ?  

I have done alot of research in England the past year, I am happy to say I have found the Beyer side of the family still residing in the Liverpool area. My Grandfather Albert Leo Beyer passed away when I was only about 15 years old and my parents 10 years after that so it has been a real journey trying to find the family over there. But thanks to people like on this website and others the journey has been made far easier.  Regards Alane

 

 

 

 

 

Alane Beyer
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Hi Mike, this secret Shopshire Map is just great ... as well as the  Ordnance Survey, it just a little hard to read.

I would like to purchase all these maps from the Shropshire Archives but its hard to tell which ones to buy for sure. Will check out the FAQ's as Martyn suggested.

Regards Alane :)

Alane Beyer
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Last seen: 6 years 26 weeks ago
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Hi David !

Thanks so much for your help. I did get to see the street view in google .. so great ... even if it is not the Beyer home.

I will also try contacting Mrs Kay Egerton, as its worth a try. People have been so kind to me on this journey it really warms my heart. I never thought I could find the Beyer family, with Grandpa born in 1900 and me be so young when he died and then my Mom and Dad shorty after when I was in my mid 20's I just did not ask the questions. I knew of my Moms family in Norway dating back to 1600's and beyond but Dad never talked about his family. So here I am.

Interesting you mentioned the Welsh area. I have more Beyers in Haughton, Llandysillo, Montgomeryshire. William Nicholas Beyer 1850-1937. Having the following children: Hubert, Leslie, and Muriel ... and maybe a Elsie Francis Beyer. I think moved to Maidstone Kent in the early 1900's.

Just so neat ... I have done so much research on these Beyers I feel like I know them, and expect to find them walking down the street ... even though they have passed more than 100 years ago.

Alane :) 

Alane Beyer
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Hi Martyn,

Yes this is my Ernest Hodson who died in Dec quarter 1864 in Great Boughton Reg District. The fellow that changed this last name from Pickering.

As for EXUPERIUS (phew!) Pickerings in the Wrexham, Denbs area this is a new avenue for sure. Need to put this on the back burner for now, but interesting none the less.   This si

Do you know if there are any Pickerings, Hodsons, or Pickerings living in the Shropshire area ?  I find it difficult to find in the phone books on-line. Do you have a suggestion on how I can find living relatives ?

Alane

Alaine Lloyd
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Hi Alane,  I really hope you see this, coincidentally my name is Alaine!  A few months ago my Mother sent me a hand written notebook of my Fathers.  Luckily for me he was a great collector (hoarder) of family history and the notebook detailed an old Chancery Court case. It names  Pickering, Hodson and various other names as well as Gottlieb Ferdinand Beyer.   If you search www.discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk the reference is C 16/795/H93 Cause number 1872 H93.  I have been trying to work out what the case involved as I am related to the Hodson branch of the family.  It would seem the other Hodson's were not happy about Thomas changing his name so he could inherit the sizeable property.  I would love to see the original documents to see if this was the case.  It also looks like Thomas lost it all in 1855 and became a bankrupt.  Search Chester Chronicle newspaper 29 September 1855, the property to be sold by auction.  My GGG Granddad was George Hodson, I think he was Arabella Pickering's brother. Maybe we are very distant relatives!  Very pleased to read your blog and would love to hear from you.  Did you ever make it to England?  Alaine Lloyd 

SFHS WebMaster
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Hi Alaine, I have emailed Alane to let him know about your new posting.

Alane Beyer
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Hi Alaine !

Well this is neat. Yes we are related no doubt, and thank God for Hoarders !

My Great, Great Great Grandma was Arabella PICKERING (nee HODSON). Her daughter Louisa Harriett PICKERING married my Great Great Grandfather Gottlieb Ferdinand BEYER.

Would your GGG Grandfather be George Pickering Hodson ?  Arabella did not have a brother named George. Georges father was Thomas PICKERING Arabella's brother who changed his name to HODSON in other to inherit the Hodson Soap factory and carry on the Hodson name. What year was your George born ?

I know there was some legal issues with Hodson/Pickering families, but not sure what over. I think it could be land as well, maybe in Ellesmere area of Shropshire. I did see some National Archives records awhile ago but its pretty vague on-line, so guess its best to order the document to find out the truth.

Do you have any old photo's from late 1800's early 1900's and beyond ?  I think I have one of Louisa H Beyer ( nee Pickering ) and one of my GG Grandfather Gottlieb a family member shared.

We do plan on coming to the UK ... but right now are dealing with an 18 year old cat that just keeps hanging in ... once she decided its time to go to heaven then we will be booking our flight. !

FYI:  I do not know what has happened to any Pickerings still alive nor Hodson's until you came along. We do have a relative in France and she has done a wonderful job on the family tree.

Do hope to hear from you soon, Best regards Alane