Beginners Family tree research - WATKINS

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Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi again Heather

thank you for your perseverence. I have now downloaded and printed the gravestone pictures. Nothing wrong with the definition.

Kind regards

Bryan

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi all

I've now received the marriage certificate of my grandparents Job WATKIN amd Margaret Ann WATKIN (PURCELL) which gives me my paternal gt grandfather's name and residence, also my ggrandmother's father's name and residence which takes me over the border to Berriew North Wales. I have 2 questions. Will the fact that they were married in a Primitive Methodist Chapel help me in any way? Also if the men's professions are 'farmer' does this mean farm worker or that they owned farms?

Bryan

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Bryan

I'm not sure whether the Primitive Methodists would have used a standard marriage register within the church giving the same details as the marriage certificate or whether they kept any different sort of register. It might be worth exploring this.

As regard the occupation Farmer this could mean almost anything from farm worker (ag Lab) to tenant farmer (his own boss but renting the farm) to a farmer who actually owned and ran his own farm.

What date was the marriage? There might be some alternative sources you could look at to solve the type of farmer.

Mike

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
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Hi Mike

Thanks for that . They were married on 15th April 1896 at the Primitive Methodist Chapel Welshpool.

Regards

Bryan

Michael J Hulme
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With regard to the occupation query comparison with the census is the obvious first step, especially the 1911 where you see how the person describes their own occupation.

There was a listing of owners of land following the 1910 Finance Act This is a reference to Shropshire so you will have to work from there. Obviously this source will only name your relative if he was the owner of land, which to be quite honest, is not very likely at that date.

If you can discover the name of the owner then you could look for some Estate Records which would hopefully list the names of the Tenant Farmers. This is a more likely possibility if he wasn't a farm worker (ag lab).

Don't forget to look for any possible Wills - even the information in the index is really useful if your family were making Wills.

Mike

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi Mike

thanks for your thoughts and suggestions re: 'farm worker', certainly another avenue to research.

My kind son and his partner bought me a book for Christmas.'How To Trace Your Family History On The Internet' published by Readers Digest. it's full of useful websites and addresses. I can recommend it for other newbies like myself.

Happy New Year to all

Bryan

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi all

Is it usual for birth years to vary by a couple of years depending on which source you follow? ie. Wales BDM / familysearch.org.  I'm finding it confusing when I believe I have the right descendant only to find the birth dates don't match exactly. I think I've found my gt grandparents but I'm reluctant to purchase the marriage /birth certificates until I'm sure I have the right people.

So far I have Edward Evan WATKIN and Elizabeth WATKIN in Manafon Montgomeryshire. It would appear that Edward was a farmer of 154 acres employing 3 men, with 4 children, 2 general servants and 2 farm servants in the household. What exactly does this mean? If anyone  can throw some light on this it would be appreciated.

It seems that the more I find out the less I really know. But that's what makes it all the more intriguing!!

Kind regards

Bryan

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Bryan

If you are finding people with the same names but dates that don't match there is always the risk that you are actually dealing with two completely different families so you need to explore different sources to establish whether you have one family with different dates or two families each with their own dates.

With regard to what I presume is information from the census, anyone with a farm of 154 acres is in business in a fairly big way at that time. Note that Trade Directories often list farmers with over 150 acres. The farm staff will have been made up of several men and boys and there may well have been female staff helping in the house.

Some of the workers, especially the married men, will have lived in a cottage nearby, often part of the farm, and it will have been provided with the job so they are known as 'tied cottages'. If you lost your job you also lost your house. Unmarried workers, if they didn't live at home with their parents, would often 'live in' at the farm house and work out on the farm.

On some census forms it will state the number of acres and the number of men and boys employed saying that a certain number were 'indoors' which meant they lived in the farm house. Living in continued until after the Second World War.

Mike

morrisonman
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Last seen: 5 years 13 weeks ago
Joined: Tuesday, 21-06-2011

Hi, Bryan,

Just adding my bob's worth - you probably realized anyhow, cf. Msg No. 5

but

"Wrockwardine and then an undeciferable symbol followed by the letter D"

most probably stands for.....

Wrockwardine Wood

cheers,

mm

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi mm

Many thanks, no I hadn't realized that but it makes sense when looking at the certificate.

I think I have now moved back quite a few years since my last post. I believe we came from across the border in Montgomeryshire and my gt gt grandfather was Thomas WATKIN born in 1792 and married to Elizabeth BEBB born in 1794, married in 1814. I have some gaps in my more recent history though. I recall my father saying he was the youngest of 13 children (I possibly got that wrong) as the records show he was one of 15. I have the names of 10 including himself but no names for the other 5 children. Is there somewhere I can look to fill in the gaps? They were married on 15th April 1896, their first child Margaret Elizabeth was born in 1896, the last recorded child Hilda was born in 1919 and my father was born in 1924 so this doesn't leave much time for a further 5 children, unless there were multiple births. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Regards

Bryan

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi again all

Since my last post  I've found out loads about both the paternal and maternal sides to my family. (Mike Jones in my second post was not wrong when he said it was addictive!!) 

My paternal side is the connection with Salop and I hope the fact that although we derived from 'over the border' I can still receive such useful and informative input from SFHS members.

I believe I am the Gt grandson of Edward Evan WATKIN b1857 d1885 buried with his wife Elizabeth (MORRIS) WATKIN in Berriew churchyard. (A short life even by those day's standards. I wonder what was his demise?)

If my research is correct his father was Nathaniel WATKIN b1820 d1907 and his father was Thomas WATKIN b1792 d1871 who's father was Evan WATKIN b 1767 d1831.

So I've got back to my Gt Gt Gt Gt grandparents.

This exhausts the census information so where do I go from here? I'd love to take it further back if possible. Also I'd like to fill in detail gleaned so far.

I've filled in uncles/aunts, birth/death details in recent years (Ancestry.co.uk/family tree) but this still leaves gaps in older history. I've posted emails on curiousfox.co.uk and other research websites for more information and await their responses.

Kind regards

Bryan

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi all

since my last post I've looked deeper into my paternal grandfather's history, knowing that unless I get this right the links back are irrelevant. On the marriage certificate for him and my grandmother are the residences of Berriew together with Cefn-dre-boeth and Fron-sho-Hugh, I had dismissed this as Welsh for Berriew but it turns out they are actual addresses. Through the marvels of Google streetview I've tracked down the first one to a farmhouse and am in contact with the current occupiers. It's on the Vaynor Park Estate which has been owned for centuries by the Corbett-Winder family so I hope to be able to trace further back through this source. My current dilemma is my grandfather Job WATKIN b 1876 is recorded as at Alberbury but the only listing on BMD is registered at Atcham. Is this the nearest offices or am I looking at the wrong Job WATKIN? Without certainty of his birth /parentage I am reluctant to apply for his birth certificate to carry out further research. Any assistance would be welcome.

Kind regards

Bryan

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Bryan

The Atcham Registration District covered a large area to the west of Shrewsbury right out to the Welsh border so there is a good chance you have the correct entry from the index.

Have a look at the list of places in the Atcham Registration District on the GENUKI web site.

Mike

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi Mike

Thank you for that. Following the links through it looks like I need to request the certificate from the Shrewsbury registrar's office.

If this is the right line then I have another question. In the 1881 census for him the street address is 'Uchllan'. I've looked this up extensively but can't find any such street/farm/address. Can anyone throw any light on this?

Kind regards

Bryan

Michael J Hulme
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Hello Bryan

The trick is to look at the other place names on the page and the adjoining pages especially the parish name at the top. Using this I found Manafon-gaenog south east of Llanfair Caereinion at Ordnance Survey map ref SJ 135 037 and then Brynhwdog (at the bottom of your page) a bit further north at OS Ref SJ 135 043.

I have been using the 1:50,000 map but to make any more progress you need to find a copy of the 1:25,000 and or 1:10,000 maps for the area.

Mike

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Thanks again for that Mike

I'll call in at my local library. I believe they have extensive copies of OS maps.

Kind regards

Bryan

Benno46
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Last seen: 4 years 34 weeks ago
Joined: Tuesday, 20-08-2013

Dear Bryan

I read with interest your message regarding your grandparents, ie. Job & Margaret Watkin, which is of interest to me because I am convinced that Job Watkin was my grandfather's brother.  My grandfather's name was Edward Evan Watkin and was born at Uwch y Llan, Manafon, on the 21st May 1873.   He also had a brother named Nathaniel, together with Job, John, Elizabeth (Ginny) and Polly.   Their father farmed the Dinnant Farm near the river, and his father (my great great grandfather) lived and farmed The Moat Farm for many years in Manafon.   It would be nice to meet up sometime and talk together about our family history, because I am that Job was / would be my great uncle.  Please feel free to contact me direct on 01244 544564.

Best regards - Brian (Bennett)

My email address:  bri.bennett@talktalk.net

Bryan Watkins
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Last seen: 1 year 11 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 4-11-2012

Hi Brian

I believe you are right. We are related. I have sent a personal email to you.

Bryan

JanisT
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Last seen: 4 years 33 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, 29-08-2013

Hi Bryan

I have been reading with interest all the info you have gathered about your family.  I am searching for a Watkins family said to come from the Oswestry area.  I have had a lady at Oswestry Library searching records for Emily Elizabeth Watkins (my Husband's Grandmother) without success but she did say she and her family could be registered over the border in Wales so that is my next task.  She was born in Oswestry in 1885 and was one of 9 children (One of her brothers was called William who died in WW1 and is on the memorial in Oswestry.  Emily married and moved to America where she had 3 children and then sadly died, her husband came back to England and brought them up in Lancashire where he came from.  That is all the information i have, so i have a long trek ahead.  Maybe there could be a connection with your relatives, who knows!!  It is good that you have found someone connected to you.  Happy Hunting.

Regards  Janis

Roger Watkin NZ
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Last seen: 2 years 19 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, 5-04-2015

Hi Bryan, Brian and others on this thread.

Like you, Bryan, I started researching my family tree much later in life than I meant to, being now 65, and retired. A perfect time, really. Better late than never.

This thread is unused for nearly 2 years, but my findings may be of interest.

I googled "Job Ernest Watkin" to see what I could find, and hey presto, this thread! Job was born at Woolston, Church Stretton on 8 Mar 1874 to Arthur Roger Watkin & Mary Watkin, and spent Census night 1881 (April 3rd) with his mother at her parents' place at Squire Hall, More, Clun, Shropshire. Three months later, in July 1881, he, his parents, 3 siblings, his Uncle John, Aunt Betsy, and their five children all emigrated to New Zealand on the SS Cotopaxi.

I am the grandson of Job Ernest Watkin. Research that I and others here in NZ have done shows that the parents of Arthur Roger Watkin were Job (born 1801) and Ann Watkin, originally of Moat Farm, Manafon. This Job's parents were Evan and Catherine Watkin (of Guilsfield, Montgomeryshire, Wales) who had at least six other sons between 1783 and 1796. The surname seems to vary between Watkin and Watkins over this period.

Benno, I have emailed you about my message here, because it seems certain we are from the same lineage, and assuming you live somewhere in England, we could meet! I am travelling there later this year. The wife of a distant cousin in Taranaki NZ has done extensive research over the past 20 years, and is about to publish an updated Watkin Family Tree directory. This will focus on the NZ descendants, but also has quite a lot on the origins of our family in Montgomeryshire and Shropshire.

If anyone else has info on Evan (died 1831) & Catherine (nee Evans) Watkin(s) of Llanerchrochwell, Guilsfield, I would love to hear from them!

Roger

Roger Watkin NZ
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Bryan, sorry I meant to add you are correct about Thomas marrying Elizabeth Bebb as mentioned in your 12/01/13 post. Thomas (b 1792) was the elder brother of Job (b 1801 - my great great grandfather) and he and Elizabeth had at least  seven children, Thomas, Evan, Nathaniel, Elizabeth, Job, Mary, and Edward between 1814 and 1833.

Thomas spent Census night 2 April 1871 at Water Gate Street the Poplars, Llanfair, Llanfyllin, Montgomeryshire, and sadly died three days later on 5 April.

So we are related (very distantly) too, even though your side kept the 'S' on Watkin, and we didn't!!

Roger

Bryan
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Last seen: 4 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: Wednesday, 14-03-2018

Hi Roger, my apologies for such a belated reply to your post. I spent many enjoyable hours researching and posting results in the Watkin/s family history during 2013. I finally came up against a brick wall at around the mid 1700's and work and other interests took over my spare time. In May 2015 after retiring, my wife, myself and our eldest son moved to Spain where we are now. Recently I looked up and re joined the SFHS site and noticed your posts. How fascinating that following the split in the family back in the past we are now scattered so far afield. I now have a new email address which you are welcome to contact me on: bryan.watkins2@aol.com.I look forward to making contact with you. Regards, Bryan.