Any Information relating to Charles Ellis WILLIAMS

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sarah williams
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Last seen: 35 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: Friday, 5-01-2018

Hi,

I am trying to find out as much information about my grandfather as possible. His name was Charles Ellis WILLIAMS born in October 1917 (I think in Wrexham). Unfortunately despite hours of searching I haven't been able to confirm his parents names. He did have 2 brothers called Noel and Bert. He died in November 1991 in Wrexham. He was a police officer and I remember my Grandma telling me stories of them living in a police house. He was a member of the Welsh Fusiliers (hopefully spelt right) He was married to Hilda Maud BROOKMAN/COOK (13/7/1915 - 9/1/2008). BROOKMAN was her widowed name COOK her maiden. They had two children Michael Charles WILLIAMS 9/2/1951 he was born in Bridgnorth (he is my Dad) they also had a daughter named Christine who emigrated to Australia she is deceased and I think she may have been older than my dad.

My Grandad had various medals which I hope to attach a photo of at a later date and he was given the Freeman of Shrewsbury or something similar. Not much is known as my Grandad was a quiet man and just got on with gardening etc. My Dad is regretting not asking too much and for his birthday i am trying to compile a family tree/family history so any information would be gratefully received.

I am a member on ancestry and genes reunited. I am located in Southport, Merseyside.

Thank You

Sarah

Michael J Hulme
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Last seen: 8 hours 36 min ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

Hello Sarah

If you are satisfied that the October 1917 birth in the Wrexham Registration District is the correct one you can obtain both parents names, including the mother's maiden name, by purchasing a copy of his Birth Certificate.

Look on the General Register Office web site and select 'order certificates online' then on the next page select 'Search the GRO historical birth and death indexes and order Certificates/PDFs Online' which will take you to a page where you can register for an account or sign in if you already have one.  Once registered and signed in you are taken to another page where the top left option is 'Search the GRO Indexes' where you need to select Birth or Death.  If you enter the details you already have and click search you will probably only get one result.  You will need to scroll down to see the information.

Unless you really need a Certificate, which is a legal document, you should select PDF at the right of the entry because this is cheaper.  Follow the remaining pages to the payment page and you should receive a message that it can be downloaded within three or four days.

Mike

sarah williams
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Last seen: 35 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: Friday, 5-01-2018

Thanks I will look into that now.

Michael J Hulme
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Last seen: 8 hours 36 min ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

Hello Sarah

Do you know when your grandfather retired from the police?  He probably joined Denbighshire Police Force which became part of Gwynedd Constabulary in 1967 which was renamed North Wales Police on 1 April 1974.  These name changes are significant if you try to obtain a copy of his service record.  If you wish to do this you could try two approaches.  First contact North Wales Police and ask them if they can tell you where his service record may have been deposited.  Secondly, contact the local archives office of the force headquarters at the time he retired to see if they have anything or know where the records may be.

I see that your grandfather had left a Will when he died and that Probate was granted at Leeds on 10 February 1992.  Ask if a copy of the Will survives within the family otherwise you can purchase a copy from the Government web site but they are £10.00 each for a download.

When you have read the short introduction click the green 'Start now' button and on the page that opens you need to click the 1858-1996 tab.  Initially this only allows you to enter a surname and year of death but on the next screen you can enter more details including the exact date of death 17 Nov 1991 and the date of probate 10 Feb 1992.  This information came from a search on the Ancestry web site England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, which is much easier to search than the government site and for earlier probates includes quite a bit of useful information in the index provided you always look at the image.

I am trying to find some more information about your grandfather being a Freeman of Shrewsbury but that will be sometime next week before I get an answer.

The medals in your first photograph are clearly from the second world war as described by the accompanying certificate.  The second photograph with the single medal is his Police Long Service and Good Conduit Medal which would have been presented to him when he reached 22 years service.

Mike

macwil
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Last seen: 18 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: Tuesday, 27-10-2015

Hi Sarah,

If you  haven't already found them the WW2 medals are, from left (near letter) to right:-

1939-1945 Star
Burma star? Blue appears black in photo but I'm pretty certain this is correct.
France-Germany Star
Defence Medal
War Medal
 

This link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility#world-war-2-medals shows all the available medals and eligibility criteria. Click WW2 Link on left or just scroll down to WW2.

Regards,

Malcolm

PhilPoole
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Last seen: 22 hours 1 min ago
Joined: Saturday, 11-06-2011

Hi Sarah,

I took a look at the 1939 National Register for him but found no obvious record, which implies he was probably serving in Armed Forces in September 1939. 

Based on 1991 death record he was born on 29th October 1917. Using this then potential birth record in Wrexham in 4Q17 gives his mother's maiden surname as Newell. At present I haven't found a marriage record in Denbighshire for a Williams and Newell combination prior to 1917, but there is one in Chester in 2Q1917 for a Charles Williams and Mary L. Newell. Is it possible this couple were the parents of Charles Ellis Williams?

Regards

Phil Poole

sarah williams
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Last seen: 35 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: Friday, 5-01-2018

Brilliant thank you. I will try and find out when he retired from the police force.

sarah williams
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Last seen: 35 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: Friday, 5-01-2018

Thanks Phil yes that seems very likely to be them as I am sure the name Charles Ellis was his Dads name as well.

sarah williams
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Last seen: 35 weeks 1 day ago
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Update - so far we think my Grandad retired from the police in 1971/72 his last police job was at Craven Arms and he was a police sergeant.

sarah williams
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Last seen: 35 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: Friday, 5-01-2018

The above picture is of the medal with the freeman of shrewsbury on it. I ordered my Grandads birth certificate. His mother was Mary Louise Newell and his father was also called Charles Williams. His profession was listed as Sergeant Kings Shropshire Light Infantry (railway clerk). Does this mean anything to anyone? I know that my great grandad was born in Scotland.

Michael J Hulme
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Last seen: 8 hours 36 min ago
Joined: Saturday, 4-06-2011

Hello Sarah

I think the Freemen in your family have now been identified.

Your Great Grandfather Charles WILLIAMS was made free in 1904.
His father Edward WILLIAMS was made free in 1856.
His father William WILLIAMS was made free in 1830.

I will send you some additional details direct.

Mike